WEBVTT

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it's Carmen speaking

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um use he him pronouns

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um before yo-yo and I uh do an access

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check I'd like to say some thank yous

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and introduce folks to the pain series

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um this is episode five of the pain

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series

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um we this is part of a research and

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development process towards pain Pals

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which is a online social platform in the

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form of an open world multiplayer video

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game this is a platform for people with

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a wide range of pain conditions that is

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a non-medical space

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so

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um I'd like to thank Leonardo the

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international Society

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for the Arts

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sciences and technology for giving me

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the opportunity to develop pain Pals

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with the Berkeley disability lab

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um I'd also like to thank the Canada

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Council for the Arts

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for the resources that are making this

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series possible

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also

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um I'd like to thank Karen Nakamura

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um the Berkeley disability lab and and

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today Holly for

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helping manage the zoom and um helping

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to organize the this event

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today we have our interpreter team here

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uh Topher and ROM which will be who will

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be on screen and then Jordan and

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Jennifer who will be supporting off

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screen

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um thank you uh Topher and Ron for being

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a a presence uh during our last few uh

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pain series events

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it's great to have you here

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um we we also have uh automatic captions

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um by way of otter AI so

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I'm just going to give Holly a second to

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maybe an invite Holly on to describe how

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people can access the transcript and

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captions if they don't know already

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yeah hi this is Holly speaking if you're

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on your computer it'll be at the bottom

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of that sidebar and there'll be live

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transcripts and you press turn on

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subtitles I think you'll be able to move

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the rectangle of text and also the font

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size

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um so it doesn't um get in the way of

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you've seen the um talk and then if

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you're on your phone or um iPod I

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believe there's like three dots at the

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bottom of the screen that you pressed to

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turn on subtitles

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um but DM me if you have any issues

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um and I can try and figure that out

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cool thanks Holly

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um I'm also just going to be mindful

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that we are working with an interpreter

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team now and I I need to slow my speech

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a bit

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um

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I like to say at the beginning of these

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events

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that accessibility is an ongoing

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practice that is Guided by Community

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needs so

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um in a way we are all helping to

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maintain the accessibility of this space

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um

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in the spirit of collective access I'd

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like to just ask if everyone could shut

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their their cameras off and their audio

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off just to maximize

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um visibility for

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um the presenters and the interpreters

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and also if we could just refrain from

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using the chat that would be great

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um as I'm a screen reader user and the

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chat will make my screen reader announce

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everything in a robot voice

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um

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other than that

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um this is also a gentle pain informed

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space

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um identifying a space as gentle is

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something I learned from our pain series

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guest Rebel

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Fiola blackburnett

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um Rebel needed a gentle space and a lot

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of us do too so I'll just invite

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everybody here today to help me hold or

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help us hold a gentle space for each

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other and for ourselves

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this is also a pain inform space this

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means that you can show up sick in a

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flare-up on meds you can medicate you

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can take the comfort that you need

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um it's a non-medical space where you

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can be with your pain or distract

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yourself from it

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um there are no expectations on you

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except for the understanding that you

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will honor our community agreements

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around accessibility and the safe space

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that we're holding here

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it's all in terms of my access notes

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so um I'd like to move on to a land

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acknowledgment

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um it's a bit of a change of format for

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the series

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um

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um since myself and pain series guest

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Moira Williams

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um are on the same land I asked them if

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they would provide a land acknowledgment

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so

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um I think Holly has a recording and

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we're just going to listen to an

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acknowledgment uh by Maury Moira

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Williams

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all right and then sharing oh you go oh

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this recording is a little low volume so

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you know you might have to bump up your

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your audio

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hi everybody and thanks Carmen for

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inviting me here today

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again my name is Moira I am an

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indigenous disabled person my face is

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long and oval shaped I have wide high

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cheekbones and a long nose with a bump

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at the top

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my eyes are slightly hooded and almond

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shaped they are dark dark almost black

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blue color

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I have long dark chestnut colored hair

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with swashes of red highlights

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it's off my face in a high ponytail

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today my skin is a pale brownish color

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I'm wearing a black long sleeve crew

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neck sweater a glimmery short rhinestone

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necklace with a tiny hot pink gummy

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teddy bear charm I'm also wearing bronze

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colored boxy wire frame glasses as I

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read this to you my background is a

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mixture of Grays and golden brown

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splashes Gnarls and thick twisting

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textures it is a close-up of a black

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willow tree

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I'm beaming in from the East Bay in

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California on the stolen lands of the

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Confederate Villages of the Sean people

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which is home to the first Arbor a

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California Native ceremonian ceremonial

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space in the Sean territory since time

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immemorial the first Arbor is a symbol

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of the owani nation's resistance and

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strength in the face of colonialism and

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its regimes of power

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although I am indigenous I am a visitor

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here and continue our Traditions by

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respectfully honoring and thanking the

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Le Jean people and all the olani nations

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who have lived here for hundreds of

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generations belonging to the land where

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they continue to cultivate reciprocal

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relationships with all the life here and

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nurture their powerful and beautiful

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color

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thank you in Algonquin

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in our mobile virtual landscape a land

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we enter daily and will now Embrace in a

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multitude of emotions pain and

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resistance together I invite each of you

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to join me in acknowledging that the

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virtual Landscapes we connect with and

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navigate through like the physical lands

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we occupy daily and simultaneously with

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mobile and virtual lands are equally

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contested lands built on continued

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legacies and practices of stolen lands

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legacies of slavery and force removals

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of native peoples by European settlers

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colonialism is a current ongoing proc

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practice

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or process

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it is a structure eroding indigenous

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lands and culture throughout the world

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we commit to building our mindfulness

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about participation with lands both

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physical and virtual that uphold

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systemic practices and beliefs these

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regimes of power harm all indigenous

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peoples indigenous women women X

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two-spirited and disabled indigenous

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people

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these structures of power break treaties

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erase and control access to ancient and

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contemporary knowledges Capital

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technology health care and the

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environment especially the water

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broken treaties exist and move between

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physical and Virtual Worlds our

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territorial land acknowledgment Today Is

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our commitment to working to Center

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indigenous peoples and knowledges it is

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a commitment to learning and unlearning

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and to supporting and participating in

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Collective efforts to abolish Colonial

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structures

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structures

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that continue to harm

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the lechon territory is home to six

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Omani Nations they are checking you

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speaking people who continue from time

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immoral Memorial to live love and

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celebrate Life along the title waterways

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flowing into what is currently known as

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the East Bay each nation has its own

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geography culture dialect and history

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all the olani nation is connected but

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are as diverse as the ecosystems they

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live with and continue to enrich the

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physical world and the virtual world in

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a multitude of ways

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now I invite you into a call in response

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to answer whose native lands are you on

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right now and if you'd like you can go

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to https

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colon backslash backslash native

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n-a-t-i-v-e Dash land

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l-a-n-d period c e and look up what

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Native lands you are on and enter it as

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view as as I

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I'll lead you through the four

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directions of the world you can join in

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movement in any way you like or feel or

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need and break that square and make more

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of a Multiverse cosmology in this space

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today

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or you can look after look up afterwards

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so I invite you to follow Grand Spirit

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of the North

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in any way your body needs to move with

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your eyelashes

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with your nose

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with your elbow

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and ask whose native lands are you on

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right now

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I invite you to follow Grand spirit

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of the east in any way your body needs

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to move

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with your eyelashes nose elbow

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and ask whose native lands are you on

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right now

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I invite you to follow Grand Spirit of

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the south in any way your body needs to

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move

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with your eyelashes

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your nose

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either elbow both elbows

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and ask whose native lands are you on

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right now

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I invite you to follow Grand Spirit of

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the West in any way your body needs to

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move

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slowly

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quickly

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with your eyelashes your nose

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your elbow

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and ask whose native lands are you on

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right now

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thank you Moira out

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Holly

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um Can Can you all hear me

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yes okay cool thank you

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um well thank you Moira um send

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something thankful Vibes to Moira right

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now

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um

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um yeah so yo-yo as a way to start our

287
00:13:33.839 --> 00:13:36.060
um conversation I thought we'd do an

288
00:13:36.060 --> 00:13:38.760
access check first and

289
00:13:38.760 --> 00:13:41.339
um yeah I'm happy to go or happy for you

290
00:13:41.339 --> 00:13:43.380
to go first uh whatever your your choice

291
00:13:43.380 --> 00:13:44.399
is

292
00:13:44.399 --> 00:13:45.959
and

293
00:13:45.959 --> 00:13:49.680
yeah I will follow your lead

294
00:13:49.680 --> 00:13:51.959
okay okay

295
00:13:51.959 --> 00:13:52.680
um

296
00:13:52.680 --> 00:13:54.899
it's Carmen speaking

297
00:13:54.899 --> 00:13:58.500
um I just wanted to thank Moira again

298
00:13:58.500 --> 00:14:01.440
for their land acknowledgment

299
00:14:01.440 --> 00:14:02.160
um

300
00:14:02.160 --> 00:14:04.500
I've been enjoying hanging out with

301
00:14:04.500 --> 00:14:07.260
Moira lately over the last few days

302
00:14:07.260 --> 00:14:09.920
um on Sunday we went to the

303
00:14:09.920 --> 00:14:13.560
Exploratorium in San Francisco with our

304
00:14:13.560 --> 00:14:17.880
mutual friend Jillian crochet

305
00:14:17.880 --> 00:14:21.120
um as well as my partner Kristen and our

306
00:14:21.120 --> 00:14:24.060
four-year-old daughter Pearl

307
00:14:24.060 --> 00:14:25.079
um

308
00:14:25.079 --> 00:14:28.560
I social connection for me is an access

309
00:14:28.560 --> 00:14:30.240
need

310
00:14:30.240 --> 00:14:31.139
um

311
00:14:31.139 --> 00:14:34.320
I struggle with feelings of isolation

312
00:14:34.320 --> 00:14:37.980
and loneliness and it's staying

313
00:14:37.980 --> 00:14:41.579
connected to Crypt community that helps

314
00:14:41.579 --> 00:14:43.920
me address

315
00:14:43.920 --> 00:14:44.880
um

316
00:14:44.880 --> 00:14:46.920
you know the feeling of of being alone

317
00:14:46.920 --> 00:14:48.600
indifferent

318
00:14:48.600 --> 00:14:49.880
um

319
00:14:49.880 --> 00:14:52.860
it was invaluable last month when I was

320
00:14:52.860 --> 00:14:55.500
in rural Ohio

321
00:14:55.500 --> 00:14:59.399
um to catch up with uh friends like

322
00:14:59.399 --> 00:15:03.480
Rebel who I mentioned Moira

323
00:15:03.480 --> 00:15:06.440
um pain series guest Sharona Franklin

324
00:15:06.440 --> 00:15:10.800
future guests Grant and Jonathan of the

325
00:15:10.800 --> 00:15:13.920
Curiosity paradox

326
00:15:13.920 --> 00:15:14.579
um

327
00:15:14.579 --> 00:15:17.579
yeah I just I think for me

328
00:15:17.579 --> 00:15:19.560
um the paint series

329
00:15:19.560 --> 00:15:22.019
um is important important to me for the

330
00:15:22.019 --> 00:15:23.820
same reason it reminds me that there are

331
00:15:23.820 --> 00:15:26.399
a lot of pain Pals out there

332
00:15:26.399 --> 00:15:28.320
um so I really am grateful for this

333
00:15:28.320 --> 00:15:31.079
space and thanks for being here

334
00:15:31.079 --> 00:15:32.940
um with me

335
00:15:32.940 --> 00:15:35.040
um

336
00:15:35.040 --> 00:15:37.199
in terms of a description I have olive

337
00:15:37.199 --> 00:15:40.740
skin and black hair and a beard

338
00:15:40.740 --> 00:15:41.399
um

339
00:15:41.399 --> 00:15:44.940
I have an earbud in that's black

340
00:15:44.940 --> 00:15:48.000
um I have a light colored Panama style

341
00:15:48.000 --> 00:15:52.560
hat on today that has an upturned brim I

342
00:15:52.560 --> 00:15:55.740
have a short sleeve button shirt on with

343
00:15:55.740 --> 00:15:58.920
um that is white with blue stripes I'm

344
00:15:58.920 --> 00:16:01.860
wearing brick colored pants

345
00:16:01.860 --> 00:16:04.019
um and comfy slippers

346
00:16:04.019 --> 00:16:05.459
um

347
00:16:05.459 --> 00:16:10.920
um I mean uh the room that I'm renting

348
00:16:10.920 --> 00:16:12.839
here while I'm in town

349
00:16:12.839 --> 00:16:17.220
um and uh yeah other than that what

350
00:16:17.220 --> 00:16:19.920
might not be visible is the pain that I

351
00:16:19.920 --> 00:16:21.779
have in my joints

352
00:16:21.779 --> 00:16:23.820
um I have pain in my arms right now and

353
00:16:23.820 --> 00:16:25.260
my knees

354
00:16:25.260 --> 00:16:28.260
um I unfortunately I think this is from

355
00:16:28.260 --> 00:16:31.440
the long drive the Exploratorium

356
00:16:31.440 --> 00:16:33.959
um sometimes I forget that a car ride or

357
00:16:33.959 --> 00:16:36.480
even sitting can be tiring

358
00:16:36.480 --> 00:16:38.399
um

359
00:16:38.399 --> 00:16:40.740
um so you know today I'm going to be

360
00:16:40.740 --> 00:16:43.079
gentle with myself you know just find

361
00:16:43.079 --> 00:16:44.699
the comfort that I need

362
00:16:44.699 --> 00:16:47.399
and move in the ways that I need to to

363
00:16:47.399 --> 00:16:49.500
find Comfort

364
00:16:49.500 --> 00:16:51.959
um and other than that my access needs

365
00:16:51.959 --> 00:16:53.519
are taken care of

366
00:16:53.519 --> 00:16:54.240
um

367
00:16:54.240 --> 00:16:58.220
and um that's me check

368
00:16:59.100 --> 00:17:02.120
thank you Carmen

369
00:17:05.040 --> 00:17:07.160
hi I'm yo-yo

370
00:17:07.160 --> 00:17:11.819
I am sitting in my home office

371
00:17:11.819 --> 00:17:14.160
there's kind of like sunlight streaming

372
00:17:14.160 --> 00:17:16.860
in from a nearby window

373
00:17:16.860 --> 00:17:19.860
it is like 70 80 degrees in New York

374
00:17:19.860 --> 00:17:21.540
right now

375
00:17:21.540 --> 00:17:22.620
um

376
00:17:22.620 --> 00:17:25.919
it is you know the stolen lands of the

377
00:17:25.919 --> 00:17:29.160
Lenape people that I'm residing on

378
00:17:29.160 --> 00:17:32.240
currently in Brooklyn New York

379
00:17:32.240 --> 00:17:34.799
I really deeply appreciated that land

380
00:17:34.799 --> 00:17:36.299
acknowledgment

381
00:17:36.299 --> 00:17:38.340
because I also feel like the body is

382
00:17:38.340 --> 00:17:41.340
kind of like a territory in a land so

383
00:17:41.340 --> 00:17:44.039
moving through that with the body was

384
00:17:44.039 --> 00:17:47.340
really beautiful so thank you Maura

385
00:17:47.340 --> 00:17:50.100
um I am an East Asian Tony's American

386
00:17:50.100 --> 00:17:52.020
woman

387
00:17:52.020 --> 00:17:52.740
um

388
00:17:52.740 --> 00:17:56.160
I'm wearing this shirt that's hand drawn

389
00:17:56.160 --> 00:18:02.280
by another pain pale a Mel stancata I

390
00:18:02.280 --> 00:18:04.799
don't know if you know them uh Carmen

391
00:18:04.799 --> 00:18:08.100
but they're also someone that I met

392
00:18:08.100 --> 00:18:10.140
through Ezra Venice

393
00:18:10.140 --> 00:18:14.520
and they're a beautiful artist dancer

394
00:18:14.520 --> 00:18:18.120
and it's a bunch of like blobs kind of

395
00:18:18.120 --> 00:18:21.120
just like all over the front in Black

396
00:18:21.120 --> 00:18:23.400
and Whites

397
00:18:23.400 --> 00:18:27.059
um joselia I think who has been also a

398
00:18:27.059 --> 00:18:28.860
part of the series

399
00:18:28.860 --> 00:18:30.440
calls them

400
00:18:30.440 --> 00:18:33.480
uh pain blobs

401
00:18:33.480 --> 00:18:35.340
so I'm wearing a shirt covered with

402
00:18:35.340 --> 00:18:37.140
plain bombs

403
00:18:37.140 --> 00:18:39.900
and I'm also wearing these big black

404
00:18:39.900 --> 00:18:42.720
headphones I have on

405
00:18:42.720 --> 00:18:43.440
um

406
00:18:43.440 --> 00:18:46.200
like kind of just like yeah I don't know

407
00:18:46.200 --> 00:18:47.880
these are just like way too big for my

408
00:18:47.880 --> 00:18:49.640
face but I wear them anyway

409
00:18:49.640 --> 00:18:53.940
I love a good audio experience

410
00:18:53.940 --> 00:18:57.600
um I have on just like uh like a new

411
00:18:57.600 --> 00:19:00.840
haircut I just got it's like silver in

412
00:19:00.840 --> 00:19:04.440
the front I kind of look like an e-girl

413
00:19:04.440 --> 00:19:08.280
um and yeah I'm very excited to be here

414
00:19:08.280 --> 00:19:12.660
in terms of like mind body access

415
00:19:12.660 --> 00:19:14.580
I really love that land acknowledgment

416
00:19:14.580 --> 00:19:16.380
because I realized I was like

417
00:19:16.380 --> 00:19:18.419
kind of like

418
00:19:18.419 --> 00:19:21.480
yeah like in the computer space but like

419
00:19:21.480 --> 00:19:24.299
running around in the computer space

420
00:19:24.299 --> 00:19:26.280
so I was like open and closing windows

421
00:19:26.280 --> 00:19:28.980
just like boom boom boom

422
00:19:28.980 --> 00:19:30.660
and

423
00:19:30.660 --> 00:19:34.919
very chaotic and tiring actually so

424
00:19:34.919 --> 00:19:38.100
that was a really nice moment to

425
00:19:38.100 --> 00:19:42.179
ground ourselves into this space and

426
00:19:42.179 --> 00:19:44.520
I really deeply appreciate that because

427
00:19:44.520 --> 00:19:46.380
I do think that

428
00:19:46.380 --> 00:19:48.240
kind of like being in the digital space

429
00:19:48.240 --> 00:19:52.380
lends itself to this endlessness of

430
00:19:52.380 --> 00:19:53.460
um

431
00:19:53.460 --> 00:19:55.980
yeah just like

432
00:19:55.980 --> 00:19:58.620
forever infinite Windows

433
00:19:58.620 --> 00:19:59.280
um

434
00:19:59.280 --> 00:20:00.539
so

435
00:20:00.539 --> 00:20:04.760
yeah I just came back from Taiwan

436
00:20:04.760 --> 00:20:07.679
a few days ago so I'm kind of moving

437
00:20:07.679 --> 00:20:10.200
through jet lag I went back for a

438
00:20:10.200 --> 00:20:13.020
funeral my grandfather passed away

439
00:20:13.020 --> 00:20:16.620
and I mentioned this to Carmen just like

440
00:20:16.620 --> 00:20:19.559
as we were planning this event

441
00:20:19.559 --> 00:20:22.200
just like thinking through

442
00:20:22.200 --> 00:20:26.820
yeah like losing loved ones and also the

443
00:20:26.820 --> 00:20:29.700
process of paying

444
00:20:29.700 --> 00:20:33.240
um in the form of grief so I'm also

445
00:20:33.240 --> 00:20:34.980
looking forward to talking to you more

446
00:20:34.980 --> 00:20:36.179
about that

447
00:20:36.179 --> 00:20:37.860
and

448
00:20:37.860 --> 00:20:40.440
yeah I think

449
00:20:40.440 --> 00:20:43.559
I'm like trying not to put myself in a

450
00:20:43.559 --> 00:20:45.780
place where I'm like

451
00:20:45.780 --> 00:20:49.919
and now I do my work again where I do

452
00:20:49.919 --> 00:20:52.200
like bring like a lot of satisfaction to

453
00:20:52.200 --> 00:20:55.140
the work I do but I also have been

454
00:20:55.140 --> 00:20:57.480
realizing like

455
00:20:57.480 --> 00:20:59.100
yeah like

456
00:20:59.100 --> 00:21:01.980
having had this time off in a way and

457
00:21:01.980 --> 00:21:03.960
being with my family

458
00:21:03.960 --> 00:21:06.600
just like

459
00:21:06.600 --> 00:21:09.480
how less is more and like being with

460
00:21:09.480 --> 00:21:10.799
like

461
00:21:10.799 --> 00:21:12.780
people you love and being with people

462
00:21:12.780 --> 00:21:15.419
that you really cherish

463
00:21:15.419 --> 00:21:17.760
is so important

464
00:21:17.760 --> 00:21:18.840
um

465
00:21:18.840 --> 00:21:20.880
and

466
00:21:20.880 --> 00:21:22.500
yeah

467
00:21:22.500 --> 00:21:24.419
you know like

468
00:21:24.419 --> 00:21:27.419
the the things we want to do are so

469
00:21:27.419 --> 00:21:30.780
important and yet I do think that

470
00:21:30.780 --> 00:21:33.360
it makes me

471
00:21:33.360 --> 00:21:36.419
yeah like want to reapproach how we do

472
00:21:36.419 --> 00:21:37.380
things

473
00:21:37.380 --> 00:21:39.840
and how I approach work

474
00:21:39.840 --> 00:21:43.020
um differently so I I'm kind of coming

475
00:21:43.020 --> 00:21:45.780
into this space with that like

476
00:21:45.780 --> 00:21:49.280
mindset of like okay

477
00:21:49.380 --> 00:21:51.299
here we are

478
00:21:51.299 --> 00:21:53.820
how do we do this

479
00:21:53.820 --> 00:21:55.860
differently and how do we do this in a

480
00:21:55.860 --> 00:21:59.340
way that honors our bodies and minds and

481
00:21:59.340 --> 00:22:01.200
how do we do this

482
00:22:01.200 --> 00:22:03.600
like I love the idea of the gentle space

483
00:22:03.600 --> 00:22:05.880
because

484
00:22:05.880 --> 00:22:08.280
those are the spaces that I want to be

485
00:22:08.280 --> 00:22:09.360
in

486
00:22:09.360 --> 00:22:10.200
um

487
00:22:10.200 --> 00:22:12.360
so yeah

488
00:22:12.360 --> 00:22:15.120
yeah so that's me and yeah in terms of

489
00:22:15.120 --> 00:22:17.880
access I think they're met

490
00:22:17.880 --> 00:22:19.559
um I might be looking off to the side

491
00:22:19.559 --> 00:22:21.900
sometimes to look at some notes

492
00:22:21.900 --> 00:22:23.520
so

493
00:22:23.520 --> 00:22:25.559
just keep that in mind

494
00:22:25.559 --> 00:22:28.679
and I'll also be describing some images

495
00:22:28.679 --> 00:22:31.380
and videos as well

496
00:22:31.380 --> 00:22:33.720
yeah yeah thank you

497
00:22:33.720 --> 00:22:36.419
thank you so much yo yo thanks for that

498
00:22:36.419 --> 00:22:39.120
introduction and for checking in

499
00:22:39.120 --> 00:22:39.840
um

500
00:22:39.840 --> 00:22:43.559
yeah I you know I I would just love to

501
00:22:43.559 --> 00:22:45.780
you know give you some space to share

502
00:22:45.780 --> 00:22:49.080
more about your practice and um

503
00:22:49.080 --> 00:22:50.940
um I think you have a a short

504
00:22:50.940 --> 00:22:53.460
presentation for us and um we're going

505
00:22:53.460 --> 00:22:56.400
to be screen sharing uh I usually give

506
00:22:56.400 --> 00:22:58.740
like guests like a space to just like

507
00:22:58.740 --> 00:23:00.179
describe their practice in their own

508
00:23:00.179 --> 00:23:01.799
words so

509
00:23:01.799 --> 00:23:03.900
um just to give folks a sense of your

510
00:23:03.900 --> 00:23:05.460
work and what you care about and what

511
00:23:05.460 --> 00:23:07.200
you do

512
00:23:07.200 --> 00:23:09.000
um yeah

513
00:23:09.000 --> 00:23:12.240
so if it's okay can I hand it back to

514
00:23:12.240 --> 00:23:16.200
you yo-yo yeah sure okay so I will take

515
00:23:16.200 --> 00:23:21.360
it away and begin the screen sharing

516
00:23:21.360 --> 00:23:22.980
um

517
00:23:22.980 --> 00:23:25.799
let me pull up

518
00:23:25.799 --> 00:23:28.799
this

519
00:23:31.320 --> 00:23:33.059
huh

520
00:23:33.059 --> 00:23:36.480
where did my

521
00:23:36.480 --> 00:23:38.400
can you see

522
00:23:38.400 --> 00:23:40.500
this screen

523
00:23:40.500 --> 00:23:44.240
where it says hi I'm yo-yo

524
00:23:44.880 --> 00:23:45.960
yes

525
00:23:45.960 --> 00:23:48.419
okay thank you

526
00:23:48.419 --> 00:23:51.000
so yeah I'm

527
00:23:51.000 --> 00:23:54.240
yo-yo I'm an introduce learning artist I

528
00:23:54.240 --> 00:23:55.620
explore

529
00:23:55.620 --> 00:23:58.020
possibilities of self-knowledge in the

530
00:23:58.020 --> 00:23:59.580
context of emerging and body

531
00:23:59.580 --> 00:24:01.799
Technologies

532
00:24:01.799 --> 00:24:02.520
um

533
00:24:02.520 --> 00:24:04.860
this is there's a photo of me I'm

534
00:24:04.860 --> 00:24:06.960
sitting in my studio in front of a

535
00:24:06.960 --> 00:24:09.179
projection

536
00:24:09.179 --> 00:24:10.679
um I make these different kinds of

537
00:24:10.679 --> 00:24:14.400
animations with like rainbow radiating

538
00:24:14.400 --> 00:24:18.000
shapes and different iconography

539
00:24:18.000 --> 00:24:20.280
um kind of denoting like the different

540
00:24:20.280 --> 00:24:22.460
levels of

541
00:24:22.460 --> 00:24:24.900
uh yeah different levels of pain

542
00:24:24.900 --> 00:24:27.840
different levels of uh illness

543
00:24:27.840 --> 00:24:30.419
experience and

544
00:24:30.419 --> 00:24:32.820
all of the ways in which that kind of

545
00:24:32.820 --> 00:24:34.200
like emerges

546
00:24:34.200 --> 00:24:38.159
in my life as is kind of like

547
00:24:38.159 --> 00:24:40.620
soft data set

548
00:24:40.620 --> 00:24:42.240
and I'll talk a little bit more about

549
00:24:42.240 --> 00:24:44.039
that

550
00:24:44.039 --> 00:24:46.140
um through this project

551
00:24:46.140 --> 00:24:49.140
uh called the resilience Journal

552
00:24:49.140 --> 00:24:54.020
and I on this slide there is a circle

553
00:24:54.020 --> 00:24:57.539
with an orange magenta and yellow

554
00:24:57.539 --> 00:25:00.659
hand-drawn

555
00:25:00.659 --> 00:25:05.460
a journal uh visualization so it kind of

556
00:25:05.460 --> 00:25:07.020
looks like a spider web

557
00:25:07.020 --> 00:25:09.419
there's lots of different sections

558
00:25:09.419 --> 00:25:11.580
filled in what color pencil

559
00:25:11.580 --> 00:25:16.080
and you know this is a project that I've

560
00:25:16.080 --> 00:25:19.200
been developing and you know

561
00:25:19.200 --> 00:25:22.080
figuring out a way to create a tool to

562
00:25:22.080 --> 00:25:23.280
visualize

563
00:25:23.280 --> 00:25:25.200
different overlooked

564
00:25:25.200 --> 00:25:28.440
Soft Data in our lives

565
00:25:28.440 --> 00:25:29.279
um

566
00:25:29.279 --> 00:25:32.460
so meaning I wanted to create a way

567
00:25:32.460 --> 00:25:34.980
a journaling tool to understand my

568
00:25:34.980 --> 00:25:37.559
illness in a way that felt more

569
00:25:37.559 --> 00:25:39.779
representative of how I actually

570
00:25:39.779 --> 00:25:43.220
experience chronic illness

571
00:25:43.620 --> 00:25:46.980
so in this slide we have

572
00:25:46.980 --> 00:25:49.140
a spread from my personal resilience

573
00:25:49.140 --> 00:25:52.380
journal and on the left are daily notes

574
00:25:52.380 --> 00:25:55.020
and on the right is a circular data

575
00:25:55.020 --> 00:25:56.640
visualization

576
00:25:56.640 --> 00:25:58.740
and

577
00:25:58.740 --> 00:26:01.200
this journal looks at my disability and

578
00:26:01.200 --> 00:26:04.260
chronic experience

579
00:26:04.260 --> 00:26:06.900
um I have a connective tissue disorder I

580
00:26:06.900 --> 00:26:09.299
was born with called marfons

581
00:26:09.299 --> 00:26:12.840
and so oftentimes that kind of emerges

582
00:26:12.840 --> 00:26:14.400
in different ways

583
00:26:14.400 --> 00:26:17.700
and it's you know

584
00:26:17.700 --> 00:26:20.640
different levels of visibility over the

585
00:26:20.640 --> 00:26:21.840
years

586
00:26:21.840 --> 00:26:25.140
so it's kind of like this

587
00:26:25.140 --> 00:26:25.860
um

588
00:26:25.860 --> 00:26:29.179
yeah this experience I've been like

589
00:26:29.179 --> 00:26:33.539
uh having you know for since the day I

590
00:26:33.539 --> 00:26:36.179
was born so thinking about how like

591
00:26:36.179 --> 00:26:39.120
embedded it is in my body it's been very

592
00:26:39.120 --> 00:26:41.760
difficult to kind of like put language

593
00:26:41.760 --> 00:26:43.380
to it

594
00:26:43.380 --> 00:26:46.500
um so over the course of 2019 and 2020

595
00:26:46.500 --> 00:26:48.539
I've been tracking seven different

596
00:26:48.539 --> 00:26:51.059
dimensions of my illness

597
00:26:51.059 --> 00:26:53.700
so in the circle you'll see there's like

598
00:26:53.700 --> 00:26:55.679
seven different layers

599
00:26:55.679 --> 00:26:57.960
there's felt it which is the chronic

600
00:26:57.960 --> 00:26:59.340
pain levels

601
00:26:59.340 --> 00:27:02.039
logistical the different ways I ask for

602
00:27:02.039 --> 00:27:04.020
help in daily life

603
00:27:04.020 --> 00:27:07.679
body image the ways my quote unquote

604
00:27:07.679 --> 00:27:09.840
invisible illness

605
00:27:09.840 --> 00:27:10.559
um

606
00:27:10.559 --> 00:27:14.880
yeah like exists with others

607
00:27:14.880 --> 00:27:15.659
um

608
00:27:15.659 --> 00:27:17.880
the next is social pressures kind of

609
00:27:17.880 --> 00:27:20.880
like figuring out how to

610
00:27:20.880 --> 00:27:23.360
exist in a very

611
00:27:23.360 --> 00:27:26.480
ableist and capitalist Society

612
00:27:26.480 --> 00:27:30.600
the next session is Doctor which has

613
00:27:30.600 --> 00:27:34.020
evolved into getting care the different

614
00:27:34.020 --> 00:27:36.960
ways in which I receive and get care

615
00:27:36.960 --> 00:27:40.080
and then there's future which is

616
00:27:40.080 --> 00:27:42.240
the different ways I'm enacting my

617
00:27:42.240 --> 00:27:43.620
future

618
00:27:43.620 --> 00:27:47.880
desired future narrative in the present

619
00:27:47.880 --> 00:27:51.179
and then there's past which is

620
00:27:51.179 --> 00:27:54.360
uh the different ways in which

621
00:27:54.360 --> 00:27:56.220
different memories and different trauma

622
00:27:56.220 --> 00:27:57.919
kind of like

623
00:27:57.919 --> 00:27:59.520
emerge

624
00:27:59.520 --> 00:28:01.380
in daily life

625
00:28:01.380 --> 00:28:04.799
and so each time

626
00:28:04.799 --> 00:28:06.360
you know I was moving through daily life

627
00:28:06.360 --> 00:28:09.240
and each time something happened that

628
00:28:09.240 --> 00:28:11.159
pertains to one of these Dimensions or

629
00:28:11.159 --> 00:28:14.220
categories I would mark it in this

630
00:28:14.220 --> 00:28:15.659
journal

631
00:28:15.659 --> 00:28:17.100
and

632
00:28:17.100 --> 00:28:20.400
how dark I colored in represented the

633
00:28:20.400 --> 00:28:23.220
intensity of that experience

634
00:28:23.220 --> 00:28:25.620
and at the top you also see that there

635
00:28:25.620 --> 00:28:27.539
are symbols that represent

636
00:28:27.539 --> 00:28:29.880
specific moments like

637
00:28:29.880 --> 00:28:32.700
I accommodated myself or

638
00:28:32.700 --> 00:28:36.480
I had to explain it to someone or

639
00:28:36.480 --> 00:28:40.080
my favorite is people accommodated

640
00:28:40.080 --> 00:28:42.480
me

641
00:28:42.480 --> 00:28:44.279
so

642
00:28:44.279 --> 00:28:48.059
this kind of goes along with this idea

643
00:28:48.059 --> 00:28:52.260
that I discovered through the work of a

644
00:28:52.260 --> 00:28:53.700
data artist

645
00:28:53.700 --> 00:28:57.059
Georgia loopy

646
00:28:57.059 --> 00:29:00.240
um g-i-o-r-g-i-a-l-u-p-i

647
00:29:02.400 --> 00:29:05.940
and her work is all about looking at the

648
00:29:05.940 --> 00:29:07.320
different ways

649
00:29:07.320 --> 00:29:09.240
that data

650
00:29:09.240 --> 00:29:13.679
is yeah like everywhere all the time so

651
00:29:13.679 --> 00:29:17.880
this idea that there's this Soft Data

652
00:29:17.880 --> 00:29:21.360
versus hard data in our lives

653
00:29:21.360 --> 00:29:24.059
um I think you know living with illness

654
00:29:24.059 --> 00:29:25.380
and living with

655
00:29:25.380 --> 00:29:28.860
uh generational disability I think about

656
00:29:28.860 --> 00:29:31.260
the ways that hard data often manifests

657
00:29:31.260 --> 00:29:33.120
as

658
00:29:33.120 --> 00:29:35.399
um medical data so

659
00:29:35.399 --> 00:29:38.580
you know specific numbers for

660
00:29:38.580 --> 00:29:41.779
you know heart rate blood pressure

661
00:29:41.779 --> 00:29:44.460
weights all that kind of stuff

662
00:29:44.460 --> 00:29:48.960
and then how that serves its purpose and

663
00:29:48.960 --> 00:29:52.140
yet also leaves so much out so I love to

664
00:29:52.140 --> 00:29:55.140
think more about you know what what does

665
00:29:55.140 --> 00:29:57.240
get left out and often that is the Soft

666
00:29:57.240 --> 00:29:58.679
Data which is

667
00:29:58.679 --> 00:30:02.039
the qualitative data and

668
00:30:02.039 --> 00:30:04.440
how soft data

669
00:30:04.440 --> 00:30:07.200
you know in this definition here is data

670
00:30:07.200 --> 00:30:09.000
as human experience

671
00:30:09.000 --> 00:30:10.919
full of opinions suggestions

672
00:30:10.919 --> 00:30:13.340
interpretations

673
00:30:13.340 --> 00:30:18.679
contradictions and uncertainties

674
00:30:19.440 --> 00:30:21.980
so

675
00:30:22.320 --> 00:30:25.500
this idea of Soft Data

676
00:30:25.500 --> 00:30:27.720
kind of asks this question of is there

677
00:30:27.720 --> 00:30:30.539
space for us to build our own language

678
00:30:30.539 --> 00:30:32.700
about illness mental health physical

679
00:30:32.700 --> 00:30:33.899
health

680
00:30:33.899 --> 00:30:37.440
in our bodies and

681
00:30:37.440 --> 00:30:39.659
um I'm playing a short video right now

682
00:30:39.659 --> 00:30:42.419
as I'm talking of the resilience journal

683
00:30:42.419 --> 00:30:46.140
in the month of May and 2019

684
00:30:46.140 --> 00:30:49.140
and the circle fills up section by

685
00:30:49.140 --> 00:30:52.820
section in shades of green

686
00:30:53.880 --> 00:30:57.419
I started doing this because I realized

687
00:30:57.419 --> 00:30:59.580
I didn't have a space in my life to

688
00:30:59.580 --> 00:31:02.279
honor my body mind and its fullness

689
00:31:02.279 --> 00:31:05.220
I often judge my body mind or completely

690
00:31:05.220 --> 00:31:06.679
ignore it

691
00:31:06.679 --> 00:31:09.720
especially when it is in pain

692
00:31:09.720 --> 00:31:12.179
and you know that's something I see

693
00:31:12.179 --> 00:31:14.000
that's very common

694
00:31:14.000 --> 00:31:17.039
in the Immigrant communities I grew up

695
00:31:17.039 --> 00:31:18.059
with

696
00:31:18.059 --> 00:31:21.179
illness is often so unspeakable

697
00:31:21.179 --> 00:31:23.700
we often never develop the language to

698
00:31:23.700 --> 00:31:25.559
acknowledge what is happening in our

699
00:31:25.559 --> 00:31:28.679
body Minds so I wanted to decide

700
00:31:28.679 --> 00:31:30.299
something that would allow me to build

701
00:31:30.299 --> 00:31:32.580
language on my own terms

702
00:31:32.580 --> 00:31:34.799
and I wanted to design something that

703
00:31:34.799 --> 00:31:37.140
could allow me to

704
00:31:37.140 --> 00:31:40.380
honor all of my experiences as a form of

705
00:31:40.380 --> 00:31:43.380
knowing

706
00:31:49.440 --> 00:31:52.140
so as I started doing this ritual I was

707
00:31:52.140 --> 00:31:54.539
approached by others who were interested

708
00:31:54.539 --> 00:31:56.039
in sharing this language building with

709
00:31:56.039 --> 00:31:57.419
me so

710
00:31:57.419 --> 00:31:59.460
other people wanted to use it for their

711
00:31:59.460 --> 00:32:02.539
mental health or chronic fatigue or pain

712
00:32:02.539 --> 00:32:05.399
some people just wanted to use it as a

713
00:32:05.399 --> 00:32:06.779
way to

714
00:32:06.779 --> 00:32:10.080
Center more care into their lives

715
00:32:10.080 --> 00:32:12.899
and I've also learned how someone used

716
00:32:12.899 --> 00:32:14.159
this to

717
00:32:14.159 --> 00:32:16.380
advocate for themselves in the hospital

718
00:32:16.380 --> 00:32:19.500
when they got covered

719
00:32:19.500 --> 00:32:22.799
um so yeah I I'm really interested in

720
00:32:22.799 --> 00:32:24.980
figuring out ways to

721
00:32:24.980 --> 00:32:27.659
continue to build

722
00:32:27.659 --> 00:32:30.000
a deeper understanding

723
00:32:30.000 --> 00:32:32.220
a shared language

724
00:32:32.220 --> 00:32:35.279
the Soft Data you know

725
00:32:35.279 --> 00:32:37.760
database

726
00:32:37.760 --> 00:32:40.980
for experiences with illness

727
00:32:40.980 --> 00:32:44.159
experiences with pain with disability

728
00:32:44.159 --> 00:32:46.440
in this slide you'll see

729
00:32:46.440 --> 00:32:48.480
a photo of me holding the print version

730
00:32:48.480 --> 00:32:50.580
of the resilience Journal

731
00:32:50.580 --> 00:32:53.640
and a photo of my friends brazilian's

732
00:32:53.640 --> 00:32:55.860
Journal book filled out in various

733
00:32:55.860 --> 00:32:57.320
colors

734
00:32:57.320 --> 00:33:01.100
and also a screenshot from Instagram

735
00:33:01.100 --> 00:33:03.899
uh from another friend who enjoyed using

736
00:33:03.899 --> 00:33:05.940
the journal

737
00:33:05.940 --> 00:33:09.720
and yeah there is a pdf version that's

738
00:33:09.720 --> 00:33:10.919
available

739
00:33:10.919 --> 00:33:13.679
on my website if folks are interested in

740
00:33:13.679 --> 00:33:16.340
downloading it

741
00:33:16.799 --> 00:33:18.779
and yeah

742
00:33:18.779 --> 00:33:20.880
my practice spans many different

743
00:33:20.880 --> 00:33:24.240
disciplines so you know on the one hand

744
00:33:24.240 --> 00:33:25.980
I'm doing this

745
00:33:25.980 --> 00:33:29.460
data collecting in the ways of drawing

746
00:33:29.460 --> 00:33:31.380
and writing in my journal

747
00:33:31.380 --> 00:33:33.419
I also was really interested in

748
00:33:33.419 --> 00:33:36.179
exploring how to explore

749
00:33:36.179 --> 00:33:38.940
my illness through sound

750
00:33:38.940 --> 00:33:41.399
and so right now this video that is

751
00:33:41.399 --> 00:33:45.779
playing is of me in the rehearsal Studio

752
00:33:45.779 --> 00:33:47.940
it's a dance rehearsal studio with some

753
00:33:47.940 --> 00:33:50.460
like coming in from Windows

754
00:33:50.460 --> 00:33:54.720
uh wooden floors I'm wearing

755
00:33:54.720 --> 00:33:58.140
just a uh

756
00:33:58.140 --> 00:34:02.720
bra with strapped without straps and I'm

757
00:34:02.720 --> 00:34:06.240
also yeah like connected to all these

758
00:34:06.240 --> 00:34:07.980
wires and cables

759
00:34:07.980 --> 00:34:10.080
and there are these microphones that are

760
00:34:10.080 --> 00:34:12.240
sticking to my skin

761
00:34:12.240 --> 00:34:15.839
and yeah these microphones pick up the

762
00:34:15.839 --> 00:34:18.240
creaking and crackling sounds that my

763
00:34:18.240 --> 00:34:19.679
body makes

764
00:34:19.679 --> 00:34:21.780
and because I have a connective tissue

765
00:34:21.780 --> 00:34:25.220
disorder my body is very

766
00:34:25.220 --> 00:34:29.339
uh sonorous and creates many of these

767
00:34:29.339 --> 00:34:32.220
sounds so I began recording the sounds

768
00:34:32.220 --> 00:34:34.200
of my bones and joints and started

769
00:34:34.200 --> 00:34:35.940
collaborating

770
00:34:35.940 --> 00:34:38.820
with an electronic musician de Espina in

771
00:34:38.820 --> 00:34:41.700
processing these samples into Musical

772
00:34:41.700 --> 00:34:44.040
soundscapes

773
00:34:44.040 --> 00:34:46.139
and

774
00:34:46.139 --> 00:34:48.359
you know I have to be moving when I'm

775
00:34:48.359 --> 00:34:51.000
making these sounds as well so I began

776
00:34:51.000 --> 00:34:53.820
looking at restorative movements

777
00:34:53.820 --> 00:34:56.520
and gestures of care has a dance

778
00:34:56.520 --> 00:34:58.800
practice

779
00:34:58.800 --> 00:35:00.839
and

780
00:35:00.839 --> 00:35:03.420
effectively I began exploring my body as

781
00:35:03.420 --> 00:35:06.240
a musical instrument

782
00:35:06.240 --> 00:35:07.859
um

783
00:35:07.859 --> 00:35:09.780
and yeah that

784
00:35:09.780 --> 00:35:11.760
this whole practice

785
00:35:11.760 --> 00:35:15.720
emerged just from this curiosity with

786
00:35:15.720 --> 00:35:18.420
these sounds in my body the ways in

787
00:35:18.420 --> 00:35:20.220
which it's connected to my illness the

788
00:35:20.220 --> 00:35:23.940
ways in which these are sounds that

789
00:35:23.940 --> 00:35:25.920
create

790
00:35:25.920 --> 00:35:29.760
a sense of relief as well

791
00:35:29.760 --> 00:35:33.480
um but also signify

792
00:35:33.480 --> 00:35:34.859
um

793
00:35:34.859 --> 00:35:38.040
an underlying pain condition so there

794
00:35:38.040 --> 00:35:40.079
will be moments where

795
00:35:40.079 --> 00:35:41.579
I would be making these sounds in my

796
00:35:41.579 --> 00:35:43.560
body and

797
00:35:43.560 --> 00:35:46.500
you know I there's a threshold where I

798
00:35:46.500 --> 00:35:49.079
can't push myself further or else I'll

799
00:35:49.079 --> 00:35:50.220
become

800
00:35:50.220 --> 00:35:53.520
uh more in pain so

801
00:35:53.520 --> 00:35:55.500
that was also something interesting to

802
00:35:55.500 --> 00:35:58.079
work with in terms of like

803
00:35:58.079 --> 00:36:01.859
thinking about pain as this like dance

804
00:36:01.859 --> 00:36:04.200
collaborator in a way of just like how

805
00:36:04.200 --> 00:36:06.839
do I dance with pain how do I continue

806
00:36:06.839 --> 00:36:09.240
to move and

807
00:36:09.240 --> 00:36:10.920
um be with

808
00:36:10.920 --> 00:36:16.980
my body and the pain in my body as well

809
00:36:16.980 --> 00:36:17.940
um

810
00:36:17.940 --> 00:36:19.740
and

811
00:36:19.740 --> 00:36:21.079
that has

812
00:36:21.079 --> 00:36:23.940
evolved further

813
00:36:23.940 --> 00:36:26.160
into a performance that I recently did

814
00:36:26.160 --> 00:36:29.040
at the shed in New York City called

815
00:36:29.040 --> 00:36:31.380
channels

816
00:36:31.380 --> 00:36:33.839
and in this First Act I'm seated on the

817
00:36:33.839 --> 00:36:36.540
floor performing inside a translucent

818
00:36:36.540 --> 00:36:38.280
fabric Cube

819
00:36:38.280 --> 00:36:40.740
bathe in blue light

820
00:36:40.740 --> 00:36:42.960
surrounded by magenta and yellow

821
00:36:42.960 --> 00:36:45.599
animated projections

822
00:36:45.599 --> 00:36:47.579
I'm wearing a bodysuit with a silver

823
00:36:47.579 --> 00:36:50.400
harness and jewelry on my face

824
00:36:50.400 --> 00:36:54.240
that looks like tubes and wires

825
00:36:54.240 --> 00:36:56.820
and in this act I share a poem about

826
00:36:56.820 --> 00:36:58.320
pain

827
00:36:58.320 --> 00:37:02.099
and how pain is archived in the body

828
00:37:02.099 --> 00:37:05.040
whether or not we are aware of it

829
00:37:05.040 --> 00:37:07.800
how pain isolates me and other

830
00:37:07.800 --> 00:37:10.560
chronically ill and disabled folks

831
00:37:10.560 --> 00:37:13.440
trapping us on an island

832
00:37:13.440 --> 00:37:18.060
and how ultimately pain is a kind of

833
00:37:18.060 --> 00:37:19.800
portal

834
00:37:19.800 --> 00:37:22.079
creating Pathways that show us different

835
00:37:22.079 --> 00:37:24.740
worlds

836
00:37:24.900 --> 00:37:27.839
and

837
00:37:27.839 --> 00:37:31.079
yeah I think it was really you know

838
00:37:31.079 --> 00:37:33.839
challenging making work about pain

839
00:37:33.839 --> 00:37:35.839
while being in pain

840
00:37:35.839 --> 00:37:37.980
so I'd love to talk to you more about

841
00:37:37.980 --> 00:37:39.420
that Carmen

842
00:37:39.420 --> 00:37:42.060
um but yeah the the last project I

843
00:37:42.060 --> 00:37:44.099
wanted to share was

844
00:37:44.099 --> 00:37:46.560
um this film I did

845
00:37:46.560 --> 00:37:49.800
last year called Recollections and

846
00:37:49.800 --> 00:37:52.380
this is a still from the film composed

847
00:37:52.380 --> 00:37:55.800
of multiple digital interfaces and

848
00:37:55.800 --> 00:37:58.500
drawings they're x-ray

849
00:37:58.500 --> 00:38:01.200
and ultrasound images

850
00:38:01.200 --> 00:38:04.920
a diagram with acupuncture points on the

851
00:38:04.920 --> 00:38:06.240
wrist

852
00:38:06.240 --> 00:38:10.680
a hand-drawn pulsating figure

853
00:38:10.680 --> 00:38:12.839
and in the center there is a frontal

854
00:38:12.839 --> 00:38:14.880
inside view

855
00:38:14.880 --> 00:38:18.060
of my full body and blue light

856
00:38:18.060 --> 00:38:20.579
similar to the diagrams found in an

857
00:38:20.579 --> 00:38:22.740
acupuncturist office

858
00:38:22.740 --> 00:38:26.280
denoting where the chi channels are in

859
00:38:26.280 --> 00:38:28.380
the body

860
00:38:28.380 --> 00:38:31.380
and there's a subtitle text in Chinese

861
00:38:31.380 --> 00:38:33.920
and English

862
00:38:33.920 --> 00:38:37.380
uh saying where we found care

863
00:38:37.380 --> 00:38:39.480
and

864
00:38:39.480 --> 00:38:42.660
yeah this was a project that was

865
00:38:42.660 --> 00:38:44.940
I think someone called it like a memoir

866
00:38:44.940 --> 00:38:45.960
film

867
00:38:45.960 --> 00:38:48.119
I didn't know what it was I was kind of

868
00:38:48.119 --> 00:38:51.660
like shooting things with my iPhone you

869
00:38:51.660 --> 00:38:53.579
know putting things together on Premiere

870
00:38:53.579 --> 00:38:55.560
just seeing what it's like

871
00:38:55.560 --> 00:38:57.960
um to tell a story about my life

872
00:38:57.960 --> 00:38:58.619
um

873
00:38:58.619 --> 00:39:01.320
and yeah this is what came from it and

874
00:39:01.320 --> 00:39:03.300
it's very uh

875
00:39:03.300 --> 00:39:05.160
it's very very much intertwined with

876
00:39:05.160 --> 00:39:06.599
kind of like

877
00:39:06.599 --> 00:39:09.720
the ways I've been kind of like moving

878
00:39:09.720 --> 00:39:12.300
between Western medicine and Eastern

879
00:39:12.300 --> 00:39:16.680
medicine all my life and uh you know the

880
00:39:16.680 --> 00:39:20.520
ways that we interface with our bodies

881
00:39:20.520 --> 00:39:23.339
um through like medical equipment but

882
00:39:23.339 --> 00:39:25.020
also through nature

883
00:39:25.020 --> 00:39:26.520
and

884
00:39:26.520 --> 00:39:29.280
yeah also speaks to like pain

885
00:39:29.280 --> 00:39:33.200
like like diasporic pain just like

886
00:39:33.200 --> 00:39:35.040
losing

887
00:39:35.040 --> 00:39:37.320
connection to a language or losing

888
00:39:37.320 --> 00:39:38.460
connection to

889
00:39:38.460 --> 00:39:40.680
motherland

890
00:39:40.680 --> 00:39:42.119
um so

891
00:39:42.119 --> 00:39:44.940
yeah yeah and

892
00:39:44.940 --> 00:39:47.160
who knows there might be another Memoir

893
00:39:47.160 --> 00:39:49.920
film coming up we'll see

894
00:39:49.920 --> 00:39:50.880
um

895
00:39:50.880 --> 00:39:52.500
but yeah that's

896
00:39:52.500 --> 00:39:55.020
that's some of my work I hope I didn't

897
00:39:55.020 --> 00:39:58.740
go too over time and no yeah thank you

898
00:39:58.740 --> 00:40:01.099
so much

899
00:40:06.119 --> 00:40:09.619
and I'm ending the screen share

900
00:40:09.960 --> 00:40:12.240
awesome thank you so much yoyo that was

901
00:40:12.240 --> 00:40:15.240
great and um I think a lot of what you

902
00:40:15.240 --> 00:40:17.940
shared like speaks to

903
00:40:17.940 --> 00:40:19.800
um the next kind of thing I want to talk

904
00:40:19.800 --> 00:40:21.180
about

905
00:40:21.180 --> 00:40:23.579
um you know I which is our our

906
00:40:23.579 --> 00:40:27.420
relationships to pain and um you know

907
00:40:27.420 --> 00:40:28.680
you and I met

908
00:40:28.680 --> 00:40:32.099
um in 2020 and we were we were pulled

909
00:40:32.099 --> 00:40:34.440
into this process with a bunch of

910
00:40:34.440 --> 00:40:35.460
friends

911
00:40:35.460 --> 00:40:37.260
um it was like an intersectional

912
00:40:37.260 --> 00:40:39.599
cross-disability group

913
00:40:39.599 --> 00:40:40.640
um

914
00:40:40.640 --> 00:40:43.800
artists and cultural workers

915
00:40:43.800 --> 00:40:44.520
um

916
00:40:44.520 --> 00:40:46.859
and we were pulled into this process to

917
00:40:46.859 --> 00:40:49.040
produce like an accessibility survey

918
00:40:49.040 --> 00:40:52.200
that unfortunately and sadly never went

919
00:40:52.200 --> 00:40:53.339
live

920
00:40:53.339 --> 00:40:56.700
um and um as part of that I I mean

921
00:40:56.700 --> 00:40:58.619
during that time I remember having like

922
00:40:58.619 --> 00:41:02.040
a pretty severe Sickle Cell crisis and

923
00:41:02.040 --> 00:41:04.320
um these are like these severe episodes

924
00:41:04.320 --> 00:41:06.119
painful episodes that bring me to

925
00:41:06.119 --> 00:41:08.700
hospital and it can cause like damage to

926
00:41:08.700 --> 00:41:11.220
my bones and organs

927
00:41:11.220 --> 00:41:14.099
um and so I remember Kristen wrote

928
00:41:14.099 --> 00:41:16.079
everybody and

929
00:41:16.079 --> 00:41:17.460
um and said that I wouldn't be able to

930
00:41:17.460 --> 00:41:20.160
make the meeting that we had planned and

931
00:41:20.160 --> 00:41:21.000
uh

932
00:41:21.000 --> 00:41:23.820
and just her sharing afterwards how

933
00:41:23.820 --> 00:41:26.220
everybody were was just like responding

934
00:41:26.220 --> 00:41:28.140
with like messages of love and support

935
00:41:28.140 --> 00:41:30.900
and also sharing their own experiences

936
00:41:30.900 --> 00:41:33.180
with pain and um

937
00:41:33.180 --> 00:41:35.760
that was just so moving for me being in

938
00:41:35.760 --> 00:41:37.740
hospital and getting that

939
00:41:37.740 --> 00:41:40.500
um those messages from everyone

940
00:41:40.500 --> 00:41:43.440
and um I felt like such a sense of

941
00:41:43.440 --> 00:41:46.500
connection with you all and um

942
00:41:46.500 --> 00:41:49.260
I I offered afterwards after I was out

943
00:41:49.260 --> 00:41:52.079
of hospital to hold a space for um

944
00:41:52.079 --> 00:41:54.300
discussion about pain and outside of

945
00:41:54.300 --> 00:41:57.000
like a medical kind of setting

946
00:41:57.000 --> 00:42:01.500
um and uh and these meetings kind of are

947
00:42:01.500 --> 00:42:04.140
you know what was the where the seed to

948
00:42:04.140 --> 00:42:07.200
what we later called pain Pals and um

949
00:42:07.200 --> 00:42:09.359
yeah and you know since then I've

950
00:42:09.359 --> 00:42:12.119
learned more about your work and uh

951
00:42:12.119 --> 00:42:15.180
through you know uh resilience journal

952
00:42:15.180 --> 00:42:18.660
and um and the remote access parties

953
00:42:18.660 --> 00:42:23.579
that you uh that you work on as well

954
00:42:23.579 --> 00:42:26.760
um and as well as this this event that I

955
00:42:26.760 --> 00:42:28.740
recently attended of yours that you

956
00:42:28.740 --> 00:42:31.980
curated for um culture Hub which was

957
00:42:31.980 --> 00:42:33.540
also about pain

958
00:42:33.540 --> 00:42:34.320
um

959
00:42:34.320 --> 00:42:37.380
and um yeah I just thought that I mean

960
00:42:37.380 --> 00:42:39.119
your work was a great introduction to

961
00:42:39.119 --> 00:42:40.619
your relationships with pain but I

962
00:42:40.619 --> 00:42:43.200
wanted to just open it up and and have

963
00:42:43.200 --> 00:42:44.640
you share about your different

964
00:42:44.640 --> 00:42:46.140
relationships the pain and maybe you

965
00:42:46.140 --> 00:42:47.640
could be in conversation at this point

966
00:42:47.640 --> 00:42:49.680
and and also bring in

967
00:42:49.680 --> 00:42:51.780
um you know that topic of uh grief as

968
00:42:51.780 --> 00:42:54.180
pain as well

969
00:42:54.180 --> 00:42:58.020
yeah absolutely yeah I I remember those

970
00:42:58.020 --> 00:43:00.660
long you know

971
00:43:00.660 --> 00:43:03.200
meetings that we would have and then

972
00:43:03.200 --> 00:43:05.940
also the ways in which we also found

973
00:43:05.940 --> 00:43:07.200
ourselves

974
00:43:07.200 --> 00:43:10.980
after and between those meetings and

975
00:43:10.980 --> 00:43:13.980
knowing that there is so much that we

976
00:43:13.980 --> 00:43:15.900
wanted to talk about in terms of pain

977
00:43:15.900 --> 00:43:19.440
and it was so beautiful when you

978
00:43:19.440 --> 00:43:21.780
were like let's make this a thing like

979
00:43:21.780 --> 00:43:24.260
let's call this James house

980
00:43:24.260 --> 00:43:28.940
and everyone was like yes

981
00:43:29.220 --> 00:43:34.200
um and I yeah I love that and

982
00:43:34.200 --> 00:43:36.839
um it has brought me into Community as

983
00:43:36.839 --> 00:43:39.660
well and

984
00:43:39.660 --> 00:43:42.119
yeah honestly has been something that

985
00:43:42.119 --> 00:43:43.980
I've been yearning for for a long time

986
00:43:43.980 --> 00:43:45.780
and

987
00:43:45.780 --> 00:43:48.180
maybe you didn't know I don't know I

988
00:43:48.180 --> 00:43:49.500
think

989
00:43:49.500 --> 00:43:51.060
you know one of the things that I'm

990
00:43:51.060 --> 00:43:54.000
contending with is that I even though I

991
00:43:54.000 --> 00:43:56.520
I like make work about illness and pain

992
00:43:56.520 --> 00:43:59.940
it sometimes becomes very difficult

993
00:43:59.940 --> 00:44:01.380
to

994
00:44:01.380 --> 00:44:04.079
remain in that space you know where it's

995
00:44:04.079 --> 00:44:05.460
like

996
00:44:05.460 --> 00:44:09.060
you're experiencing it and yet

997
00:44:09.060 --> 00:44:11.339
you're also making work about it

998
00:44:11.339 --> 00:44:13.700
and you're kind of like

999
00:44:13.700 --> 00:44:15.599
reliving it

1000
00:44:15.599 --> 00:44:17.460
wow you're

1001
00:44:17.460 --> 00:44:19.140
making it

1002
00:44:19.140 --> 00:44:19.920
um

1003
00:44:19.920 --> 00:44:23.339
so yeah I don't know if that was like

1004
00:44:23.339 --> 00:44:24.720
anything that

1005
00:44:24.720 --> 00:44:26.700
that you

1006
00:44:26.700 --> 00:44:28.260
were thinking about but that was

1007
00:44:28.260 --> 00:44:31.980
something that came up for me where I

1008
00:44:31.980 --> 00:44:34.560
I see myself being very

1009
00:44:34.560 --> 00:44:36.900
cautious and

1010
00:44:36.900 --> 00:44:41.040
yeah just like I think you know

1011
00:44:41.040 --> 00:44:45.119
reading Carolyn lazar's work

1012
00:44:45.119 --> 00:44:47.339
um put into words for me where it was

1013
00:44:47.339 --> 00:44:48.780
just like

1014
00:44:48.780 --> 00:44:50.460
you know pain is something that you try

1015
00:44:50.460 --> 00:44:52.079
to get away from

1016
00:44:52.079 --> 00:44:55.859
as much as you can and

1017
00:44:55.859 --> 00:44:58.740
um you'll do anything to get away from

1018
00:44:58.740 --> 00:44:59.880
it and

1019
00:44:59.880 --> 00:45:01.800
sometimes I think

1020
00:45:01.800 --> 00:45:05.160
that my way of getting

1021
00:45:05.160 --> 00:45:08.160
away from it has also

1022
00:45:08.160 --> 00:45:10.319
strangely been this like looking

1023
00:45:10.319 --> 00:45:13.859
directly at it at the same time

1024
00:45:13.859 --> 00:45:15.960
um

1025
00:45:15.960 --> 00:45:17.940
and yeah yeah I would love to talk to

1026
00:45:17.940 --> 00:45:19.859
you more about that like

1027
00:45:19.859 --> 00:45:22.560
how this process of creating a series on

1028
00:45:22.560 --> 00:45:23.760
pain and

1029
00:45:23.760 --> 00:45:28.500
making work about it has like how that

1030
00:45:28.500 --> 00:45:31.859
experience has been for you too

1031
00:45:31.859 --> 00:45:33.660
um yeah

1032
00:45:33.660 --> 00:45:36.480
yeah I

1033
00:45:36.480 --> 00:45:39.420
for me like I I feel like it wasn't

1034
00:45:39.420 --> 00:45:43.079
until I met other people you know like

1035
00:45:43.079 --> 00:45:46.380
like you and like just Celia who you

1036
00:45:46.380 --> 00:45:47.400
know

1037
00:45:47.400 --> 00:45:49.980
I mean I never really used the name for

1038
00:45:49.980 --> 00:45:52.319
my diagnosis in public before I met

1039
00:45:52.319 --> 00:45:55.440
jessalia someone who like says like I I

1040
00:45:55.440 --> 00:45:57.359
have sickle cell and that's what my work

1041
00:45:57.359 --> 00:46:00.119
is about and like this is you know this

1042
00:46:00.119 --> 00:46:02.880
is the topic that I'm exploring and you

1043
00:46:02.880 --> 00:46:06.240
know using it to get at other

1044
00:46:06.240 --> 00:46:08.400
um other issues you know

1045
00:46:08.400 --> 00:46:09.359
um

1046
00:46:09.359 --> 00:46:10.319
um

1047
00:46:10.319 --> 00:46:13.440
so yeah it wasn't until like I really

1048
00:46:13.440 --> 00:46:15.359
met other people with pain outside

1049
00:46:15.359 --> 00:46:18.180
outside of those medical spaces

1050
00:46:18.180 --> 00:46:21.540
um that I really started like wanting to

1051
00:46:21.540 --> 00:46:24.420
spend time thinking more about pain and

1052
00:46:24.420 --> 00:46:25.319
like

1053
00:46:25.319 --> 00:46:27.300
I mean I didn't you know I mean more

1054
00:46:27.300 --> 00:46:29.280
times thinking about being I think about

1055
00:46:29.280 --> 00:46:31.920
paying a lot like I I think you know I'm

1056
00:46:31.920 --> 00:46:34.560
in pain a lot so I'm constantly thinking

1057
00:46:34.560 --> 00:46:35.640
about it

1058
00:46:35.640 --> 00:46:37.140
um

1059
00:46:37.140 --> 00:46:40.140
but in a creative way like bringing it

1060
00:46:40.140 --> 00:46:42.420
into my practice and I think maybe it

1061
00:46:42.420 --> 00:46:43.619
was

1062
00:46:43.619 --> 00:46:46.800
the first kind of things you know I I've

1063
00:46:46.800 --> 00:46:50.940
since like explored you know where is

1064
00:46:50.940 --> 00:46:53.579
like what what does my pain inform and

1065
00:46:53.579 --> 00:46:55.680
and it you know I talked about this last

1066
00:46:55.680 --> 00:46:59.220
uh last series last event with Moira but

1067
00:46:59.220 --> 00:47:01.740
like my pain informs my art like it's

1068
00:47:01.740 --> 00:47:04.500
it's the reason that I have

1069
00:47:04.500 --> 00:47:08.160
the kind of uh lens that I do that you

1070
00:47:08.160 --> 00:47:10.079
know through which I view like the

1071
00:47:10.079 --> 00:47:12.540
institution or you know it informs my

1072
00:47:12.540 --> 00:47:14.880
critique of the institution

1073
00:47:14.880 --> 00:47:16.460
um

1074
00:47:16.460 --> 00:47:18.900
but like yeah I think it was important

1075
00:47:18.900 --> 00:47:21.599
that the first thing I really did was

1076
00:47:21.599 --> 00:47:24.839
like set a space up where I could meet

1077
00:47:24.839 --> 00:47:26.760
with other people with pain

1078
00:47:26.760 --> 00:47:29.960
um and you know not just

1079
00:47:29.960 --> 00:47:33.720
in the typical ways you do maybe through

1080
00:47:33.720 --> 00:47:36.900
like a program at a pain center or

1081
00:47:36.900 --> 00:47:38.579
something like that it's like we there

1082
00:47:38.579 --> 00:47:40.380
was no expectation on what we would talk

1083
00:47:40.380 --> 00:47:43.200
about and it went into some really

1084
00:47:43.200 --> 00:47:45.420
interesting places and like I remember

1085
00:47:45.420 --> 00:47:46.800
one of our

1086
00:47:46.800 --> 00:47:49.619
are are sessions where we were talking

1087
00:47:49.619 --> 00:47:52.200
about pain as a way of being

1088
00:47:52.200 --> 00:47:52.859
um

1089
00:47:52.859 --> 00:47:54.960
and um

1090
00:47:54.960 --> 00:47:58.020
yeah and I you know I I want I I

1091
00:47:58.020 --> 00:48:00.359
remember sharing that like at a height

1092
00:48:00.359 --> 00:48:01.980
of a pain crisis

1093
00:48:01.980 --> 00:48:03.240
um you know before I had my hip

1094
00:48:03.240 --> 00:48:06.780
replacement I was like I was I I just

1095
00:48:06.780 --> 00:48:08.700
said out loud I'm like what is the

1096
00:48:08.700 --> 00:48:12.060
radical potential of pain and um and I

1097
00:48:12.060 --> 00:48:14.099
didn't know what that was but I knew

1098
00:48:14.099 --> 00:48:16.020
there was something there and maybe it

1099
00:48:16.020 --> 00:48:18.359
is spending time with it that shows you

1100
00:48:18.359 --> 00:48:21.960
what that radical potential is and um

1101
00:48:21.960 --> 00:48:26.530
yeah yeah

1102
00:48:26.819 --> 00:48:29.339
wow

1103
00:48:29.339 --> 00:48:33.140
yeah no totally I mean

1104
00:48:33.480 --> 00:48:37.380
I think so much about how pain

1105
00:48:37.380 --> 00:48:39.660
is this

1106
00:48:39.660 --> 00:48:44.099
signal you know like it is this

1107
00:48:44.099 --> 00:48:46.500
Communicator that

1108
00:48:46.500 --> 00:48:49.140
brings with its

1109
00:48:49.140 --> 00:48:53.579
a message of a sort and I think

1110
00:48:53.579 --> 00:48:57.680
that was really interesting to

1111
00:48:57.839 --> 00:48:59.760
yeah actually kind of like step back and

1112
00:48:59.760 --> 00:49:03.420
look at and and like not

1113
00:49:03.420 --> 00:49:05.940
when you're not like fully encapsulated

1114
00:49:05.940 --> 00:49:08.579
by it you know and you're able to kind

1115
00:49:08.579 --> 00:49:10.260
of distance yourself for a moment and

1116
00:49:10.260 --> 00:49:12.119
see it and be like

1117
00:49:12.119 --> 00:49:13.619
oh

1118
00:49:13.619 --> 00:49:17.339
like this showed me

1119
00:49:17.339 --> 00:49:20.339
how to move with slowness

1120
00:49:20.339 --> 00:49:23.280
or like this showed me

1121
00:49:23.280 --> 00:49:26.220
this really specific detail in the

1122
00:49:26.220 --> 00:49:28.260
architecture of my house that I never

1123
00:49:28.260 --> 00:49:30.260
noticed before

1124
00:49:30.260 --> 00:49:34.079
and like different like like like small

1125
00:49:34.079 --> 00:49:37.380
things like that that I have

1126
00:49:37.380 --> 00:49:38.760
seen

1127
00:49:38.760 --> 00:49:41.460
more and more clearly as I go through

1128
00:49:41.460 --> 00:49:43.200
different pain flares

1129
00:49:43.200 --> 00:49:46.079
and different pain

1130
00:49:46.079 --> 00:49:47.160
um

1131
00:49:47.160 --> 00:49:49.680
yeah like

1132
00:49:49.680 --> 00:49:52.740
Mo like like pain um

1133
00:49:52.740 --> 00:49:54.839
I guess just like

1134
00:49:54.839 --> 00:49:59.339
periods pain periods yeah of just like

1135
00:49:59.339 --> 00:50:02.520
this is now

1136
00:50:02.520 --> 00:50:04.920
a different way of seeing a different

1137
00:50:04.920 --> 00:50:07.260
way of being

1138
00:50:07.260 --> 00:50:10.740
it might be temporary but

1139
00:50:10.740 --> 00:50:12.540
it does

1140
00:50:12.540 --> 00:50:17.400
emerge as a big part of my life and

1141
00:50:17.400 --> 00:50:20.780
is often very

1142
00:50:21.119 --> 00:50:24.180
yeah like like takes me

1143
00:50:24.180 --> 00:50:27.180
into a different Realm

1144
00:50:27.180 --> 00:50:29.280
than I typically am

1145
00:50:29.280 --> 00:50:32.040
and

1146
00:50:32.040 --> 00:50:34.380
yeah there is something really strange

1147
00:50:34.380 --> 00:50:36.300
and interesting about it

1148
00:50:36.300 --> 00:50:37.500
and

1149
00:50:37.500 --> 00:50:40.380
I agree with you like it has emerged as

1150
00:50:40.380 --> 00:50:43.200
I would have these conversations with

1151
00:50:43.200 --> 00:50:46.619
other people who also have pain and be

1152
00:50:46.619 --> 00:50:47.760
like

1153
00:50:47.760 --> 00:50:50.280
where do you go when you are in pain you

1154
00:50:50.280 --> 00:50:52.920
know like where are you transported and

1155
00:50:52.920 --> 00:50:55.339
like what is that like for you and

1156
00:50:55.339 --> 00:50:57.180
how do you

1157
00:50:57.180 --> 00:50:59.640
be with it

1158
00:50:59.640 --> 00:51:02.400
and how do you

1159
00:51:02.400 --> 00:51:06.660
yeah like care for it as well yeah

1160
00:51:06.660 --> 00:51:08.460
because I think it's like you can't

1161
00:51:08.460 --> 00:51:10.440
always

1162
00:51:10.440 --> 00:51:12.900
only just be with it there's always this

1163
00:51:12.900 --> 00:51:15.240
like dance or this like action that

1164
00:51:15.240 --> 00:51:16.859
you're doing with it

1165
00:51:16.859 --> 00:51:19.700
yeah yeah

1166
00:51:20.300 --> 00:51:24.300
one of my close friends uh Ed pain pal

1167
00:51:24.300 --> 00:51:28.319
Lisa Prentiss who um said you know we we

1168
00:51:28.319 --> 00:51:30.960
were talking about alternative

1169
00:51:30.960 --> 00:51:34.380
um concepts for pain scales and um

1170
00:51:34.380 --> 00:51:37.200
and Lisa was like what about a comfort

1171
00:51:37.200 --> 00:51:41.040
scale and um and I really love that idea

1172
00:51:41.040 --> 00:51:44.339
of that like and because you you know

1173
00:51:44.339 --> 00:51:47.280
it it asks a different question than the

1174
00:51:47.280 --> 00:51:48.839
paint scale

1175
00:51:48.839 --> 00:51:50.460
um and

1176
00:51:50.460 --> 00:51:52.520
finding comfort and having Comfort

1177
00:51:52.520 --> 00:51:55.200
doesn't exclude pain

1178
00:51:55.200 --> 00:51:59.059
um I'm in both I I you know I'm feeling

1179
00:51:59.059 --> 00:52:02.640
both to a degree all the time

1180
00:52:02.640 --> 00:52:04.859
um and

1181
00:52:04.859 --> 00:52:06.720
I guess

1182
00:52:06.720 --> 00:52:10.020
um I was thinking about kind of the

1183
00:52:10.020 --> 00:52:13.319
portal pain portal pain as a portal and

1184
00:52:13.319 --> 00:52:16.319
like a portal into what and um and as

1185
00:52:16.319 --> 00:52:18.960
you were saying like it's this this way

1186
00:52:18.960 --> 00:52:22.200
that has you know this this mode or or

1187
00:52:22.200 --> 00:52:25.079
this embodiment that allows you to view

1188
00:52:25.079 --> 00:52:28.319
uh the world differently uh maybe make

1189
00:52:28.319 --> 00:52:30.660
relationships differently I I found that

1190
00:52:30.660 --> 00:52:32.040
for sure

1191
00:52:32.040 --> 00:52:36.359
um in in my life and you know I I guess

1192
00:52:36.359 --> 00:52:38.160
like in

1193
00:52:38.160 --> 00:52:41.760
it it yes I I do definitely want to

1194
00:52:41.760 --> 00:52:43.740
limit pain

1195
00:52:43.740 --> 00:52:46.559
um but you know as someone so I I came

1196
00:52:46.559 --> 00:52:49.079
into making work about disability and

1197
00:52:49.079 --> 00:52:51.540
access through my through my non-visual

1198
00:52:51.540 --> 00:52:54.059
experience so it wasn't really

1199
00:52:54.059 --> 00:52:56.040
some of my pain experience like I only

1200
00:52:56.040 --> 00:52:59.720
recently started exploring that and um

1201
00:52:59.720 --> 00:53:02.460
and I know you know and I ever felt like

1202
00:53:02.460 --> 00:53:04.800
I wanted to like restore my vision for

1203
00:53:04.800 --> 00:53:07.619
example like I never I felt like like my

1204
00:53:07.619 --> 00:53:10.140
my non-visual experience was very

1205
00:53:10.140 --> 00:53:13.440
valuable and like it it opened me up to

1206
00:53:13.440 --> 00:53:17.400
so many different like unseen what I

1207
00:53:17.400 --> 00:53:20.400
call like unseen bodies of knowledge and

1208
00:53:20.400 --> 00:53:21.300
um

1209
00:53:21.300 --> 00:53:23.700
and spending time in non-visual space

1210
00:53:23.700 --> 00:53:26.040
allowed me to discover more and more of

1211
00:53:26.040 --> 00:53:28.260
those and like to develop my tactile

1212
00:53:28.260 --> 00:53:30.240
sense for example or to learn how to

1213
00:53:30.240 --> 00:53:32.160
listen intentionally

1214
00:53:32.160 --> 00:53:33.839
um and with pain

1215
00:53:33.839 --> 00:53:36.359
you know I went through this like

1216
00:53:36.359 --> 00:53:39.900
process where I was like oh am I you

1217
00:53:39.900 --> 00:53:42.660
know prescribing to cure by like wanting

1218
00:53:42.660 --> 00:53:45.720
to limit pain and uh I was like is this

1219
00:53:45.720 --> 00:53:49.559
I mean it seems silly but I you know

1220
00:53:49.559 --> 00:53:51.960
um I was sharing this actually with

1221
00:53:51.960 --> 00:53:55.619
Rebel and it was so so sweet and and

1222
00:53:55.619 --> 00:53:57.900
rebel was like

1223
00:53:57.900 --> 00:54:00.480
um no you deserve relief like you you

1224
00:54:00.480 --> 00:54:03.000
deserve the care that you need and pain

1225
00:54:03.000 --> 00:54:05.400
is still part of your life and informs

1226
00:54:05.400 --> 00:54:08.819
your life even when you take comfort in

1227
00:54:08.819 --> 00:54:09.839
you

1228
00:54:09.839 --> 00:54:12.119
find relief so

1229
00:54:12.119 --> 00:54:14.119
um

1230
00:54:14.339 --> 00:54:16.500
yeah I don't know it's it's maybe a

1231
00:54:16.500 --> 00:54:18.960
little more complicated with pain than

1232
00:54:18.960 --> 00:54:21.480
another disability experience it's also

1233
00:54:21.480 --> 00:54:23.579
I mean I have a crime chronic illness

1234
00:54:23.579 --> 00:54:26.760
that is degenerative too so

1235
00:54:26.760 --> 00:54:28.859
um both my you know my visual condition

1236
00:54:28.859 --> 00:54:31.980
and and my sickle cell are degenerative

1237
00:54:31.980 --> 00:54:33.900
so

1238
00:54:33.900 --> 00:54:37.380
um yeah I don't know I does that spark

1239
00:54:37.380 --> 00:54:40.859
anything for you yeah totally I mean

1240
00:54:40.859 --> 00:54:43.440
yeah I think definitely when you know as

1241
00:54:43.440 --> 00:54:45.960
artists we're also making work about

1242
00:54:45.960 --> 00:54:48.059
these kinds of experiences it's like

1243
00:54:48.059 --> 00:54:50.400
we're so focusing in

1244
00:54:50.400 --> 00:54:53.760
on these pains and

1245
00:54:53.760 --> 00:54:55.740
yeah like like really like being with it

1246
00:54:55.740 --> 00:54:57.660
and packing it like

1247
00:54:57.660 --> 00:55:00.000
whatever it is that we're doing it's

1248
00:55:00.000 --> 00:55:02.280
like a part of our lives and it's a part

1249
00:55:02.280 --> 00:55:03.780
of our process

1250
00:55:03.780 --> 00:55:07.500
and it is like you you said it's silly

1251
00:55:07.500 --> 00:55:10.460
but it's like very real too because

1252
00:55:10.460 --> 00:55:15.300
I also have feelings of like oh like if

1253
00:55:15.300 --> 00:55:17.280
I'm like presenting

1254
00:55:17.280 --> 00:55:19.619
in a way that isn't

1255
00:55:19.619 --> 00:55:21.619
with

1256
00:55:21.619 --> 00:55:25.500
this uh I don't know expectation that

1257
00:55:25.500 --> 00:55:27.180
I'd be in like

1258
00:55:27.180 --> 00:55:33.540
chronically ill slash in pain uh

1259
00:55:33.540 --> 00:55:37.140
like presentation of myself then then

1260
00:55:37.140 --> 00:55:38.579
like is

1261
00:55:38.579 --> 00:55:42.059
is that experience no longer valid you

1262
00:55:42.059 --> 00:55:44.819
know or like am I like removing myself

1263
00:55:44.819 --> 00:55:47.280
from that process or removing myself

1264
00:55:47.280 --> 00:55:48.359
from

1265
00:55:48.359 --> 00:55:51.960
like being with that

1266
00:55:51.960 --> 00:55:56.040
um in a deep way and it's yeah it's not

1267
00:55:56.040 --> 00:55:57.660
the case because

1268
00:55:57.660 --> 00:56:00.119
we do deserve relief we do deserve

1269
00:56:00.119 --> 00:56:02.700
comfort and it does

1270
00:56:02.700 --> 00:56:05.400
not mean that when we are in moments of

1271
00:56:05.400 --> 00:56:08.640
relief that you know that that pain was

1272
00:56:08.640 --> 00:56:09.780
not

1273
00:56:09.780 --> 00:56:11.520
uh

1274
00:56:11.520 --> 00:56:15.119
yeah like wasn't real or like wasn't uh

1275
00:56:15.119 --> 00:56:17.640
valid or anything

1276
00:56:17.640 --> 00:56:18.660
um

1277
00:56:18.660 --> 00:56:22.559
and yeah it doesn't negate that yeah and

1278
00:56:22.559 --> 00:56:27.420
so I feel that as well I definitely

1279
00:56:27.420 --> 00:56:30.599
yeah like have moments where I'm like

1280
00:56:30.599 --> 00:56:33.480
you know after

1281
00:56:33.480 --> 00:56:38.460
being with my family in Taiwan I

1282
00:56:38.460 --> 00:56:42.119
was able to also you know get some of

1283
00:56:42.119 --> 00:56:45.420
the Bodywork that I needed done and

1284
00:56:45.420 --> 00:56:48.000
I my parents found this like really

1285
00:56:48.000 --> 00:56:51.000
skillful

1286
00:56:51.180 --> 00:56:52.160
um

1287
00:56:52.160 --> 00:56:55.619
Meridian Channel healer

1288
00:56:55.619 --> 00:56:58.380
in Taiwan so

1289
00:56:58.380 --> 00:57:01.760
yeah kind of like

1290
00:57:01.800 --> 00:57:05.220
it's kind of like a deep massage but

1291
00:57:05.220 --> 00:57:07.920
like also kind of connects

1292
00:57:07.920 --> 00:57:12.599
to your channels of chi

1293
00:57:12.599 --> 00:57:14.640
yeah so

1294
00:57:14.640 --> 00:57:17.040
I I'm loving like watching The

1295
00:57:17.040 --> 00:57:19.859
Interpreter like move through this with

1296
00:57:19.859 --> 00:57:22.380
me so that's why I'm pausing

1297
00:57:22.380 --> 00:57:23.520
um

1298
00:57:23.520 --> 00:57:27.059
yeah I I think

1299
00:57:27.059 --> 00:57:30.359
being able to get that kind of care and

1300
00:57:30.359 --> 00:57:33.660
being able to like see this body worker

1301
00:57:33.660 --> 00:57:35.760
and then like feeling so much better

1302
00:57:35.760 --> 00:57:38.339
afterwards

1303
00:57:38.339 --> 00:57:41.040
was

1304
00:57:41.040 --> 00:57:42.960
like a very rare and transformative

1305
00:57:42.960 --> 00:57:46.859
experience for me because so often I'm

1306
00:57:46.859 --> 00:57:49.079
you know kind of doing like the bare

1307
00:57:49.079 --> 00:57:50.640
minimum of like

1308
00:57:50.640 --> 00:57:54.960
maintaining my body to get by and

1309
00:57:54.960 --> 00:57:56.940
um usually not feeling better after

1310
00:57:56.940 --> 00:57:59.940
going to different appointments

1311
00:57:59.940 --> 00:58:02.700
um and like not really able to access

1312
00:58:02.700 --> 00:58:05.400
the care that I need when I'm in the

1313
00:58:05.400 --> 00:58:07.619
states so

1314
00:58:07.619 --> 00:58:09.480
yeah have you experienced that I was

1315
00:58:09.480 --> 00:58:11.520
like wow like

1316
00:58:11.520 --> 00:58:14.780
there's so much

1317
00:58:15.000 --> 00:58:17.520
healing that's happening for me when I

1318
00:58:17.520 --> 00:58:19.380
go to this person

1319
00:58:19.380 --> 00:58:22.380
at multiple levels like

1320
00:58:22.380 --> 00:58:24.059
both

1321
00:58:24.059 --> 00:58:27.839
like me physically feeling better

1322
00:58:27.839 --> 00:58:29.760
and also

1323
00:58:29.760 --> 00:58:34.079
me kind of like being in touch with

1324
00:58:34.079 --> 00:58:36.780
this like ancient

1325
00:58:36.780 --> 00:58:39.119
Chinese healing technique

1326
00:58:39.119 --> 00:58:40.980
that

1327
00:58:40.980 --> 00:58:46.200
I I presume my ancestors also partooken

1328
00:58:46.200 --> 00:58:47.579
um

1329
00:58:47.579 --> 00:58:51.420
and yeah I don't know I think

1330
00:58:51.420 --> 00:58:53.880
after that experience I definitely had a

1331
00:58:53.880 --> 00:58:56.700
moment where I was like

1332
00:58:56.700 --> 00:59:00.380
like I can

1333
00:59:00.420 --> 00:59:03.119
like distance myself from Pain a little

1334
00:59:03.119 --> 00:59:03.900
bit

1335
00:59:03.900 --> 00:59:06.780
you know like like there are ways that I

1336
00:59:06.780 --> 00:59:08.040
can like

1337
00:59:08.040 --> 00:59:10.079
move

1338
00:59:10.079 --> 00:59:12.140
with pain

1339
00:59:12.140 --> 00:59:15.960
in parallel and it doesn't like

1340
00:59:15.960 --> 00:59:19.200
hold on to me in a suffocating way

1341
00:59:19.200 --> 00:59:22.859
and that was like very strange because

1342
00:59:22.859 --> 00:59:25.579
I so often did not

1343
00:59:25.579 --> 00:59:30.359
have experiences where I was not in pain

1344
00:59:30.359 --> 00:59:31.859
um

1345
00:59:31.859 --> 00:59:35.760
and yeah I don't know I think

1346
00:59:35.760 --> 00:59:37.619
that's something that's like interesting

1347
00:59:37.619 --> 00:59:40.079
to me as someone who like Moves In and

1348
00:59:40.079 --> 00:59:41.940
Out of like

1349
00:59:41.940 --> 00:59:44.460
pain flares and

1350
00:59:44.460 --> 00:59:47.280
illness and like has been through

1351
00:59:47.280 --> 00:59:49.500
different

1352
00:59:49.500 --> 00:59:52.859
times of like varying visibilities of

1353
00:59:52.859 --> 00:59:55.319
disability and

1354
00:59:55.319 --> 00:59:58.680
it makes me think about like

1355
00:59:58.680 --> 01:00:01.020
yeah like

1356
01:00:01.020 --> 01:00:04.500
like now that

1357
01:00:04.500 --> 01:00:06.359
disability

1358
01:00:06.359 --> 01:00:08.520
has become such a big part of like like

1359
01:00:08.520 --> 01:00:11.220
the relationships I've builts and the

1360
01:00:11.220 --> 01:00:12.720
friendships I've made and everything

1361
01:00:12.720 --> 01:00:17.059
like can I still also be in this space

1362
01:00:17.059 --> 01:00:21.180
when I'm not always

1363
01:00:21.180 --> 01:00:23.880
like in pain or like experiencing my

1364
01:00:23.880 --> 01:00:25.859
illness or

1365
01:00:25.859 --> 01:00:26.940
Etc

1366
01:00:26.940 --> 01:00:28.319
and like

1367
01:00:28.319 --> 01:00:31.140
yeah yeah I don't know like it's like a

1368
01:00:31.140 --> 01:00:34.260
weird like yeah like it's like a weird

1369
01:00:34.260 --> 01:00:38.480
fear but it's like also very real yeah

1370
01:00:38.640 --> 01:00:42.119
no totally yeah like am I gonna be

1371
01:00:42.119 --> 01:00:45.599
like I mean maybe this is just our the

1372
01:00:45.599 --> 01:00:47.880
pressure we feel

1373
01:00:47.880 --> 01:00:51.359
um around the ways that

1374
01:00:51.359 --> 01:00:53.700
um you know because as a result of the

1375
01:00:53.700 --> 01:00:56.400
ways the medical industrial complex like

1376
01:00:56.400 --> 01:01:00.839
kind of has to validate or qualify you

1377
01:01:00.839 --> 01:01:03.299
know our our experiences that are deeply

1378
01:01:03.299 --> 01:01:06.960
felt in our bodies and um do I am I sick

1379
01:01:06.960 --> 01:01:09.540
enough for x or am I and disabled enough

1380
01:01:09.540 --> 01:01:12.180
for X benefit or treatment or whatever

1381
01:01:12.180 --> 01:01:15.359
or diagnosis and um

1382
01:01:15.359 --> 01:01:19.200
yeah I think it's it's valid I mean we

1383
01:01:19.200 --> 01:01:22.559
we often in in Community

1384
01:01:22.559 --> 01:01:24.960
um are affirming each other and

1385
01:01:24.960 --> 01:01:28.260
um yeah and like I've I've noticed

1386
01:01:28.260 --> 01:01:30.720
there's there's people who there are

1387
01:01:30.720 --> 01:01:32.220
people who

1388
01:01:32.220 --> 01:01:33.059
um

1389
01:01:33.059 --> 01:01:34.799
are operating

1390
01:01:34.799 --> 01:01:38.520
under the assumption of X condition you

1391
01:01:38.520 --> 01:01:41.760
know because they don't get that

1392
01:01:41.760 --> 01:01:43.740
validation from the medical industrial

1393
01:01:43.740 --> 01:01:46.079
complex and um

1394
01:01:46.079 --> 01:01:48.540
and there's power in getting a diagnosis

1395
01:01:48.540 --> 01:01:51.839
sometimes and there's but there I think

1396
01:01:51.839 --> 01:01:54.359
um this like

1397
01:01:54.359 --> 01:01:57.240
fear of not being you know part of this

1398
01:01:57.240 --> 01:01:59.700
I I mean maybe it's that maybe I'm just

1399
01:01:59.700 --> 01:02:01.140
thinking through this out loud I guess

1400
01:02:01.140 --> 01:02:04.099
but like maybe it's the fear of

1401
01:02:04.099 --> 01:02:08.160
not having access to that Community

1402
01:02:08.160 --> 01:02:09.540
um

1403
01:02:09.540 --> 01:02:12.000
if you're not sick enough and

1404
01:02:12.000 --> 01:02:13.500
um

1405
01:02:13.500 --> 01:02:16.140
because that's yeah that's what I would

1406
01:02:16.140 --> 01:02:18.240
worry about losing

1407
01:02:18.240 --> 01:02:23.220
um like are are my I I don't know I

1408
01:02:23.220 --> 01:02:26.520
don't I don't I I don't

1409
01:02:26.520 --> 01:02:28.980
imagine that my conditions will get

1410
01:02:28.980 --> 01:02:32.099
significantly better that I won't you

1411
01:02:32.099 --> 01:02:35.099
know have my card will be taken away you

1412
01:02:35.099 --> 01:02:37.220
know

1413
01:02:39.140 --> 01:02:42.780
but but yeah I would be I I think

1414
01:02:42.780 --> 01:02:45.180
there's a huge that would be a huge loss

1415
01:02:45.180 --> 01:02:47.400
in my life that community that I've

1416
01:02:47.400 --> 01:02:48.480
built

1417
01:02:48.480 --> 01:02:50.880
um and and found I guess through through

1418
01:02:50.880 --> 01:02:54.920
this experience and um

1419
01:02:54.960 --> 01:02:57.740
yeah it's just so

1420
01:02:57.740 --> 01:03:00.240
comforting reassuring to know that other

1421
01:03:00.240 --> 01:03:02.460
people are out there and you know I felt

1422
01:03:02.460 --> 01:03:04.980
this long ago when I was like you know

1423
01:03:04.980 --> 01:03:07.200
even coming into my politics of

1424
01:03:07.200 --> 01:03:08.819
disability and

1425
01:03:08.819 --> 01:03:10.440
and was like I'm I feel like the only

1426
01:03:10.440 --> 01:03:12.599
one here like in my grad program now

1427
01:03:12.599 --> 01:03:14.220
where there was like no other disabled

1428
01:03:14.220 --> 01:03:16.500
people and so at that time I was like

1429
01:03:16.500 --> 01:03:19.799
writing people like Sonora uh Sonora

1430
01:03:19.799 --> 01:03:21.000
Taylor who

1431
01:03:21.000 --> 01:03:22.200
um you know some of you might know

1432
01:03:22.200 --> 01:03:25.079
teaches at UC Berkeley and you know I

1433
01:03:25.079 --> 01:03:27.480
had had met her through being curated

1434
01:03:27.480 --> 01:03:31.020
into shows by Amanda caccia and I met

1435
01:03:31.020 --> 01:03:32.880
some other folks mentors and Friends

1436
01:03:32.880 --> 01:03:36.180
through those shows too and I just reach

1437
01:03:36.180 --> 01:03:37.980
out to them and say like hey I'm feeling

1438
01:03:37.980 --> 01:03:40.799
particularly alone right now and just

1439
01:03:40.799 --> 01:03:42.660
knowing they were out there was just

1440
01:03:42.660 --> 01:03:45.059
like what I needed and they're like yeah

1441
01:03:45.059 --> 01:03:48.000
I'm doing my thing too I feel alone too

1442
01:03:48.000 --> 01:03:49.400
um you know

1443
01:03:49.400 --> 01:03:52.319
reach out whenever you need to and um

1444
01:03:52.319 --> 01:03:55.020
maybe that was also the magic of paypals

1445
01:03:55.020 --> 01:03:58.079
the group that we were in um and then I

1446
01:03:58.079 --> 01:04:01.680
hope yeah is is that we knew that others

1447
01:04:01.680 --> 01:04:03.200
uh

1448
01:04:03.200 --> 01:04:06.240
were up there too

1449
01:04:06.240 --> 01:04:08.579
um yeah I don't know I I this kind of

1450
01:04:08.579 --> 01:04:11.700
veered off into from from will we get

1451
01:04:11.700 --> 01:04:16.339
our card taken away to um

1452
01:04:18.799 --> 01:04:22.260
yeah no because it's always such a

1453
01:04:22.260 --> 01:04:25.799
yeah it's like

1454
01:04:25.799 --> 01:04:29.160
this the the ways that we like move

1455
01:04:29.160 --> 01:04:31.260
through the world are always so fluid

1456
01:04:31.260 --> 01:04:34.559
and then on top of that

1457
01:04:34.559 --> 01:04:38.579
like we go through so many different

1458
01:04:38.579 --> 01:04:42.180
yeah like layers and

1459
01:04:42.180 --> 01:04:43.020
um

1460
01:04:43.020 --> 01:04:46.579
yeah like like there's so many different

1461
01:04:46.579 --> 01:04:48.839
Transformations we go through when we're

1462
01:04:48.839 --> 01:04:50.339
moving through different illnesses and

1463
01:04:50.339 --> 01:04:52.020
different kinds of like

1464
01:04:52.020 --> 01:04:55.440
pain flares different like

1465
01:04:55.440 --> 01:04:58.920
times in our lives and I'm like

1466
01:04:58.920 --> 01:05:01.440
I guess I'm like thinking through a lot

1467
01:05:01.440 --> 01:05:06.839
of like how like is that emotion like

1468
01:05:06.839 --> 01:05:08.400
linear or is that something that's like

1469
01:05:08.400 --> 01:05:10.140
more cyclical

1470
01:05:10.140 --> 01:05:11.640
and like

1471
01:05:11.640 --> 01:05:13.140
I don't know if that's something that

1472
01:05:13.140 --> 01:05:14.940
you ever also think about where it's

1473
01:05:14.940 --> 01:05:16.859
like

1474
01:05:16.859 --> 01:05:19.200
the ways in which we move are also in

1475
01:05:19.200 --> 01:05:21.000
these like kind of like circling or like

1476
01:05:21.000 --> 01:05:22.260
spiraling

1477
01:05:22.260 --> 01:05:24.299
kinds of shapes

1478
01:05:24.299 --> 01:05:27.359
as well where we're like

1479
01:05:27.359 --> 01:05:31.920
kind of like rotating around a nucleus

1480
01:05:31.920 --> 01:05:34.200
maybe getting closer and closer to the

1481
01:05:34.200 --> 01:05:36.240
core Maybe

1482
01:05:36.240 --> 01:05:38.880
you know we're at the same place but

1483
01:05:38.880 --> 01:05:41.700
just like closer to the core every time

1484
01:05:41.700 --> 01:05:43.740
or

1485
01:05:43.740 --> 01:05:45.359
um yeah

1486
01:05:45.359 --> 01:05:49.319
yeah it's just definitely not linear for

1487
01:05:49.319 --> 01:05:53.339
yeah it's it's there's some dynamism in

1488
01:05:53.339 --> 01:05:57.480
the the uh the way it uh like the these

1489
01:05:57.480 --> 01:06:00.480
these things and unfold

1490
01:06:00.480 --> 01:06:01.260
um

1491
01:06:01.260 --> 01:06:03.599
yeah I don't I don't know

1492
01:06:03.599 --> 01:06:05.720
um

1493
01:06:06.119 --> 01:06:09.720
yeah I think I I go back to yeah it's

1494
01:06:09.720 --> 01:06:12.380
it's just

1495
01:06:13.380 --> 01:06:15.240
um

1496
01:06:15.240 --> 01:06:18.180
I mean I lost my thought I was on I was

1497
01:06:18.180 --> 01:06:21.180
I was cooking something up but I lost it

1498
01:06:21.180 --> 01:06:22.619
um

1499
01:06:22.619 --> 01:06:24.799
um

1500
01:06:25.319 --> 01:06:27.660
I also just realized that we kind of got

1501
01:06:27.660 --> 01:06:30.420
sucked into a pain for it a portal in

1502
01:06:30.420 --> 01:06:34.079
our conversation and we're like

1503
01:06:34.079 --> 01:06:36.660
at 10 minutes away from our agreed upon

1504
01:06:36.660 --> 01:06:39.660
end time oh

1505
01:06:39.660 --> 01:06:42.720
but I I wanted to just check in um do

1506
01:06:42.720 --> 01:06:44.880
you feel the need for like a short break

1507
01:06:44.880 --> 01:06:48.599
yo-yo or or anyone

1508
01:06:48.599 --> 01:06:50.640
yeah I mean

1509
01:06:50.640 --> 01:06:52.380
I'm feeling

1510
01:06:52.380 --> 01:06:54.420
pretty good

1511
01:06:54.420 --> 01:06:56.460
pretty good okay

1512
01:06:56.460 --> 01:06:59.400
I'm down to take like a short

1513
01:06:59.400 --> 01:07:01.020
like

1514
01:07:01.020 --> 01:07:04.559
three minute break okay cool

1515
01:07:04.559 --> 01:07:06.960
and um okay so we'll take a three minute

1516
01:07:06.960 --> 01:07:10.039
break and we'll

1517
01:07:12.839 --> 01:07:14.460
um

1518
01:07:14.460 --> 01:07:19.619
we'll come back at 1 27

1519
01:07:19.619 --> 01:07:23.940
um slash 427 I guess

1520
01:07:23.940 --> 01:07:25.380
yeah

1521
01:07:25.380 --> 01:07:28.799
amazing okay cool cool so maybe we'll

1522
01:07:28.799 --> 01:07:32.640
spend we'll use this this time and maybe

1523
01:07:32.640 --> 01:07:35.819
spend 10 minutes on the prompt uh or

1524
01:07:35.819 --> 01:07:37.319
sorry the um

1525
01:07:37.319 --> 01:07:41.579
oh maybe responding to those the

1526
01:07:41.579 --> 01:07:44.099
whatever questions you would like from

1527
01:07:44.099 --> 01:07:45.900
the list that I sent

1528
01:07:45.900 --> 01:07:47.940
um maybe we could chat for 10 minutes

1529
01:07:47.940 --> 01:07:49.440
about that and then maybe take a

1530
01:07:49.440 --> 01:07:53.299
question in our last five minutes

1531
01:07:53.700 --> 01:07:58.700
yeah I love these questions I think um

1532
01:08:01.319 --> 01:08:03.420
there's so much here when you're asking

1533
01:08:03.420 --> 01:08:05.160
about like

1534
01:08:05.160 --> 01:08:07.260
yeah like what cultural conditions

1535
01:08:07.260 --> 01:08:10.200
impact your pain

1536
01:08:10.200 --> 01:08:12.059
um

1537
01:08:12.059 --> 01:08:13.799
what

1538
01:08:13.799 --> 01:08:17.279
social conditions impact your pain

1539
01:08:17.279 --> 01:08:20.400
yeah because I after doing my journaling

1540
01:08:20.400 --> 01:08:23.040
process I definitely

1541
01:08:23.040 --> 01:08:25.319
started seeing all that like I started

1542
01:08:25.319 --> 01:08:27.299
seeing the different ways that socially

1543
01:08:27.299 --> 01:08:28.819
all this

1544
01:08:28.819 --> 01:08:31.500
continues to add to the pain or

1545
01:08:31.500 --> 01:08:33.000
exacerbate it or

1546
01:08:33.000 --> 01:08:36.239
maybe even cause it so

1547
01:08:36.239 --> 01:08:37.620
um

1548
01:08:37.620 --> 01:08:41.040
yeah I I definitely feel like answering

1549
01:08:41.040 --> 01:08:43.140
like the social conditions

1550
01:08:43.140 --> 01:08:45.839
does that impact my pain

1551
01:08:45.839 --> 01:08:48.719
um I noticed just like

1552
01:08:48.719 --> 01:08:51.600
yeah like the ways in which

1553
01:08:51.600 --> 01:08:53.819
the stress levels of living in New York

1554
01:08:53.819 --> 01:08:58.140
are very intense and like the work

1555
01:08:58.140 --> 01:09:01.799
culture is like constant

1556
01:09:01.799 --> 01:09:03.480
um and

1557
01:09:03.480 --> 01:09:06.779
you are required to walk so much and

1558
01:09:06.779 --> 01:09:07.679
like

1559
01:09:07.679 --> 01:09:09.719
especially like living in Brooklyn where

1560
01:09:09.719 --> 01:09:11.520
the public transportation isn't as

1561
01:09:11.520 --> 01:09:12.660
accessible

1562
01:09:12.660 --> 01:09:15.779
it's very clear that like

1563
01:09:15.779 --> 01:09:18.359
the city prioritizes a certain type of

1564
01:09:18.359 --> 01:09:19.799
body and

1565
01:09:19.799 --> 01:09:23.400
you know one that can walk for miles and

1566
01:09:23.400 --> 01:09:25.980
also be okay with working like three

1567
01:09:25.980 --> 01:09:27.900
jobs

1568
01:09:27.900 --> 01:09:28.640
um

1569
01:09:28.640 --> 01:09:31.920
and yeah I don't know I think you know I

1570
01:09:31.920 --> 01:09:33.179
moved here

1571
01:09:33.179 --> 01:09:35.219
five years ago

1572
01:09:35.219 --> 01:09:37.500
I grew up in Los Angeles and it's like

1573
01:09:37.500 --> 01:09:41.520
similar Metropolis Vibes but I do think

1574
01:09:41.520 --> 01:09:44.219
New York has just like a more intensity

1575
01:09:44.219 --> 01:09:47.100
uh that just like is part of the history

1576
01:09:47.100 --> 01:09:48.960
of it

1577
01:09:48.960 --> 01:09:49.620
um

1578
01:09:49.620 --> 01:09:52.140
that yeah has been really very difficult

1579
01:09:52.140 --> 01:09:54.780
to

1580
01:09:54.780 --> 01:09:57.660
you know navigate and

1581
01:09:57.660 --> 01:10:00.300
I think is also the reason why like

1582
01:10:00.300 --> 01:10:02.640
disability Community here

1583
01:10:02.640 --> 01:10:06.600
is like even more

1584
01:10:06.600 --> 01:10:07.800
um

1585
01:10:07.800 --> 01:10:12.179
like strong and very much like

1586
01:10:12.179 --> 01:10:13.739
passionate about being together and

1587
01:10:13.739 --> 01:10:15.140
finding each other

1588
01:10:15.140 --> 01:10:19.620
and sharing Resources with each other

1589
01:10:19.620 --> 01:10:20.940
um

1590
01:10:20.940 --> 01:10:22.980
yeah so

1591
01:10:22.980 --> 01:10:25.020
I often think about yeah just like the

1592
01:10:25.020 --> 01:10:28.020
city that I live in being this like big

1593
01:10:28.020 --> 01:10:30.960
impact for my pain because

1594
01:10:30.960 --> 01:10:32.760
yeah since living here my chronic pain

1595
01:10:32.760 --> 01:10:34.920
hasn't intensified greatly

1596
01:10:34.920 --> 01:10:36.260
the the

1597
01:10:36.260 --> 01:10:42.199
weather the colds the changing pressures

1598
01:10:42.199 --> 01:10:45.540
barometric pressures have just been like

1599
01:10:45.540 --> 01:10:48.540
yeah very intense to deal with as well

1600
01:10:48.540 --> 01:10:50.760
so I never thought I would be that

1601
01:10:50.760 --> 01:10:52.440
person that would be like oh like I

1602
01:10:52.440 --> 01:10:54.600
would love to live somewhere like

1603
01:10:54.600 --> 01:10:57.000
with good weather because it's like oh

1604
01:10:57.000 --> 01:10:58.440
yeah it's the weather you know but it's

1605
01:10:58.440 --> 01:11:01.699
like it's huge

1606
01:11:01.860 --> 01:11:05.340
um you know now coming into my 30s I'm

1607
01:11:05.340 --> 01:11:08.760
like yeah I would love Comfort I would

1608
01:11:08.760 --> 01:11:11.219
love to be in a place where

1609
01:11:11.219 --> 01:11:15.659
I can feel at EVS in my body

1610
01:11:15.659 --> 01:11:17.880
um outside

1611
01:11:17.880 --> 01:11:19.260
um

1612
01:11:19.260 --> 01:11:24.060
yeah yeah so that's real oh sorry did I

1613
01:11:24.060 --> 01:11:26.520
cut you off no no I was kind of passing

1614
01:11:26.520 --> 01:11:30.060
it on to you if you wanted to yeah yeah

1615
01:11:30.060 --> 01:11:32.460
um I mean the two cities that you live

1616
01:11:32.460 --> 01:11:34.380
you mentioned like New York and L.A

1617
01:11:34.380 --> 01:11:36.679
there's also this like

1618
01:11:36.679 --> 01:11:39.239
uh I don't know like they really

1619
01:11:39.239 --> 01:11:41.239
prescribed to the myth of radical

1620
01:11:41.239 --> 01:11:46.620
self-sufficiency like oh yeah and and I

1621
01:11:46.620 --> 01:11:49.140
think that's also like I feel yeah when

1622
01:11:49.140 --> 01:11:51.600
I'm in those cities I feel like oh I'm

1623
01:11:51.600 --> 01:11:53.640
I'm kind of on my own like I need to

1624
01:11:53.640 --> 01:11:55.140
figure stuff out given the

1625
01:11:55.140 --> 01:11:57.719
infrastructure that's provided

1626
01:11:57.719 --> 01:11:58.699
um

1627
01:11:58.699 --> 01:12:03.120
and yeah and I do notice that like I

1628
01:12:03.120 --> 01:12:06.239
really do latch on to the folks that I

1629
01:12:06.239 --> 01:12:08.040
do meet that I can trust in those places

1630
01:12:08.040 --> 01:12:10.320
and Friends of course and like what

1631
01:12:10.320 --> 01:12:11.640
you're saying about the disability

1632
01:12:11.640 --> 01:12:13.920
Community being really close New York

1633
01:12:13.920 --> 01:12:16.679
City like I I just love like zooming

1634
01:12:16.679 --> 01:12:18.600
into events even with you all because

1635
01:12:18.600 --> 01:12:20.460
it's like you all go to your each other

1636
01:12:20.460 --> 01:12:21.360
stuff

1637
01:12:21.360 --> 01:12:25.320
um which is really nice and um yeah I

1638
01:12:25.320 --> 01:12:27.659
mean that's rare like we don't you know

1639
01:12:27.659 --> 01:12:30.840
uh yeah we're working on that in

1640
01:12:30.840 --> 01:12:34.199
Vancouver I think so

1641
01:12:34.199 --> 01:12:36.719
um it's nice but but it is out of

1642
01:12:36.719 --> 01:12:39.000
necessity like you you you need to hold

1643
01:12:39.000 --> 01:12:40.440
that space

1644
01:12:40.440 --> 01:12:41.159
um

1645
01:12:41.159 --> 01:12:43.560
um yeah that makes that makes a lot of

1646
01:12:43.560 --> 01:12:45.780
sense and and there are really beautiful

1647
01:12:45.780 --> 01:12:47.400
ways that you all care for each other

1648
01:12:47.400 --> 01:12:50.159
too that I've been witnessed to too so I

1649
01:12:50.159 --> 01:12:52.140
just yeah I really

1650
01:12:52.140 --> 01:12:54.960
yeah Moira told me that they sent

1651
01:12:54.960 --> 01:12:57.780
scobies to you all at the beginning of a

1652
01:12:57.780 --> 01:13:03.000
pandemic yeah it was really nice yeah

1653
01:13:03.000 --> 01:13:05.520
I uh yeah started making kombucha

1654
01:13:05.520 --> 01:13:09.000
because of Moira and

1655
01:13:09.000 --> 01:13:13.140
yeah the gut is a very complex place and

1656
01:13:13.140 --> 01:13:16.440
I learned so much from them about it

1657
01:13:16.440 --> 01:13:19.620
um yeah I think there's so much there

1658
01:13:19.620 --> 01:13:21.480
when it comes to

1659
01:13:21.480 --> 01:13:23.760
also what you said about like necessity

1660
01:13:23.760 --> 01:13:26.520
where

1661
01:13:26.520 --> 01:13:28.440
I often talk about this with our friend

1662
01:13:28.440 --> 01:13:32.480
Shannon Finnegan too where it's like

1663
01:13:32.820 --> 01:13:35.280
I feel like necessity is like its own

1664
01:13:35.280 --> 01:13:39.360
very vital generative Force you know and

1665
01:13:39.360 --> 01:13:40.860
I feel like sometimes when we're working

1666
01:13:40.860 --> 01:13:43.320
the Arts it's like oh like that's

1667
01:13:43.320 --> 01:13:45.780
that's like a practicality or like

1668
01:13:45.780 --> 01:13:48.900
that's like like making something out of

1669
01:13:48.900 --> 01:13:51.360
necessity isn't like

1670
01:13:51.360 --> 01:13:54.659
like rigorous or like isn't conceptually

1671
01:13:54.659 --> 01:13:57.600
interesting or whatever but it's like

1672
01:13:57.600 --> 01:13:59.760
I don't think so like I think actually

1673
01:13:59.760 --> 01:14:01.560
like when things are born out of

1674
01:14:01.560 --> 01:14:03.719
necessity it's very

1675
01:14:03.719 --> 01:14:06.179
much rooted in the community that needs

1676
01:14:06.179 --> 01:14:08.280
it it's

1677
01:14:08.280 --> 01:14:10.860
it's just it's more sustainable it takes

1678
01:14:10.860 --> 01:14:12.900
the shape of

1679
01:14:12.900 --> 01:14:16.620
like the needs of the people

1680
01:14:16.620 --> 01:14:18.900
and like

1681
01:14:18.900 --> 01:14:22.020
people want it because they need it so

1682
01:14:22.020 --> 01:14:23.280
it's like

1683
01:14:23.280 --> 01:14:27.000
I I do think like

1684
01:14:27.000 --> 01:14:29.340
yeah like wow it's like

1685
01:14:29.340 --> 01:14:32.760
we're still working and moving and

1686
01:14:32.760 --> 01:14:35.100
trying to survive under these kinds of

1687
01:14:35.100 --> 01:14:38.699
oppressive forces there's this like

1688
01:14:38.699 --> 01:14:41.580
yeah this like this way of like moving

1689
01:14:41.580 --> 01:14:44.219
with necessity that has been like

1690
01:14:44.219 --> 01:14:47.580
like eye-opening for me at least of like

1691
01:14:47.580 --> 01:14:50.280
oh like this is

1692
01:14:50.280 --> 01:14:52.380
this is like very needed like this is

1693
01:14:52.380 --> 01:14:55.199
what people really need to

1694
01:14:55.199 --> 01:14:57.540
be together to thrive

1695
01:14:57.540 --> 01:15:01.980
to like feel like they're not alone

1696
01:15:01.980 --> 01:15:04.380
um because where else are we gonna get

1697
01:15:04.380 --> 01:15:07.320
it like really like our our movement

1698
01:15:07.320 --> 01:15:10.500
movements are of out of necessity

1699
01:15:10.500 --> 01:15:12.840
um this disability Arts Movement where

1700
01:15:12.840 --> 01:15:15.719
we're developing more expansive models

1701
01:15:15.719 --> 01:15:20.040
for uh for accessibility for what it

1702
01:15:20.040 --> 01:15:23.460
means to participate like it's not

1703
01:15:23.460 --> 01:15:25.500
coming from the Ada

1704
01:15:25.500 --> 01:15:27.780
um maybe that was out of necessity too

1705
01:15:27.780 --> 01:15:29.480
it was like maybe

1706
01:15:29.480 --> 01:15:33.060
the first paths

1707
01:15:33.060 --> 01:15:35.760
um out of the institution to public

1708
01:15:35.760 --> 01:15:38.280
spaces two participating in public life

1709
01:15:38.280 --> 01:15:41.580
but I I really appreciate like the kind

1710
01:15:41.580 --> 01:15:45.179
of work that uh you do especially you

1711
01:15:45.179 --> 01:15:47.040
know work like your resilience Journal

1712
01:15:47.040 --> 01:15:49.260
where you know that that is really a

1713
01:15:49.260 --> 01:15:52.320
response to the the social conditions

1714
01:15:52.320 --> 01:15:54.659
that impact your pain and the cultural

1715
01:15:54.659 --> 01:15:56.640
conditions that impact your pain you're

1716
01:15:56.640 --> 01:15:59.580
really reclaiming that that experience

1717
01:15:59.580 --> 01:16:03.780
and um and I think we we do we use our

1718
01:16:03.780 --> 01:16:06.780
art practices to leverage these these

1719
01:16:06.780 --> 01:16:09.659
different ways of thinking about

1720
01:16:09.659 --> 01:16:10.320
um

1721
01:16:10.320 --> 01:16:13.679
um disability and access and even like

1722
01:16:13.679 --> 01:16:15.540
the oppressive forces

1723
01:16:15.540 --> 01:16:16.560
um

1724
01:16:16.560 --> 01:16:17.280
um

1725
01:16:17.280 --> 01:16:19.500
that affect us

1726
01:16:19.500 --> 01:16:22.500
um and and I think that's amazing like I

1727
01:16:22.500 --> 01:16:25.140
think I think that a new accessibility

1728
01:16:25.140 --> 01:16:27.239
movement growing out of the disability

1729
01:16:27.239 --> 01:16:30.060
Arts uh that that is happening within

1730
01:16:30.060 --> 01:16:32.699
the disability Arts um

1731
01:16:32.699 --> 01:16:36.179
yeah it's it's it's yet to be seen how

1732
01:16:36.179 --> 01:16:38.100
it will impact the wider culture but I

1733
01:16:38.100 --> 01:16:39.540
think there's something very interesting

1734
01:16:39.540 --> 01:16:40.800
happening

1735
01:16:40.800 --> 01:16:43.080
um where we're developing resources for

1736
01:16:43.080 --> 01:16:45.540
ourselves and others

1737
01:16:45.540 --> 01:16:47.540
um

1738
01:16:48.360 --> 01:16:51.840
totally oh

1739
01:16:51.840 --> 01:16:54.420
it makes me so happy to hear you say all

1740
01:16:54.420 --> 01:16:56.100
these things because

1741
01:16:56.100 --> 01:16:57.600
yeah something's like when you're like

1742
01:16:57.600 --> 01:16:59.699
making the work you're just like oh like

1743
01:16:59.699 --> 01:17:00.840
this is like

1744
01:17:00.840 --> 01:17:02.219
No One's Gonna Get It No One's Gonna

1745
01:17:02.219 --> 01:17:04.920
like want to this like me or like

1746
01:17:04.920 --> 01:17:06.780
understand this in this way that I do

1747
01:17:06.780 --> 01:17:08.159
and

1748
01:17:08.159 --> 01:17:10.020
it's easy to kind of get like caught up

1749
01:17:10.020 --> 01:17:11.100
in that

1750
01:17:11.100 --> 01:17:14.520
realm of like oh it's like I'm an

1751
01:17:14.520 --> 01:17:17.040
individual but it's just like

1752
01:17:17.040 --> 01:17:19.620
yeah like

1753
01:17:19.620 --> 01:17:22.080
you know like we as artists like what

1754
01:17:22.080 --> 01:17:24.420
our role is

1755
01:17:24.420 --> 01:17:29.460
to play in in society is to create these

1756
01:17:29.460 --> 01:17:30.900
like other ways of thinking like you

1757
01:17:30.900 --> 01:17:34.679
said to create ways of like

1758
01:17:34.679 --> 01:17:37.580
yeah like

1759
01:17:37.739 --> 01:17:38.840
like

1760
01:17:38.840 --> 01:17:42.540
bringing into light the ways

1761
01:17:42.540 --> 01:17:44.400
that

1762
01:17:44.400 --> 01:17:47.100
pain and like other ways in which we're

1763
01:17:47.100 --> 01:17:48.960
like

1764
01:17:48.960 --> 01:17:50.880
um yeah like like discouraged to talk

1765
01:17:50.880 --> 01:17:53.280
about certain things

1766
01:17:53.280 --> 01:17:54.659
um

1767
01:17:54.659 --> 01:17:56.460
all of these things kind of like being

1768
01:17:56.460 --> 01:17:58.260
like bring these things to light has

1769
01:17:58.260 --> 01:17:59.820
been like a big part

1770
01:17:59.820 --> 01:18:02.100
of this process and

1771
01:18:02.100 --> 01:18:07.460
you know I often feel like oh like

1772
01:18:08.460 --> 01:18:11.940
there's so much that I can

1773
01:18:11.940 --> 01:18:17.340
I can do to reveal these things with my

1774
01:18:17.340 --> 01:18:19.320
work you know and

1775
01:18:19.320 --> 01:18:21.420
oftentimes

1776
01:18:21.420 --> 01:18:24.060
the value is in that like process of

1777
01:18:24.060 --> 01:18:26.640
doing it and that process of doing it

1778
01:18:26.640 --> 01:18:29.460
with other people and

1779
01:18:29.460 --> 01:18:30.300
um

1780
01:18:30.300 --> 01:18:32.340
yeah yeah I

1781
01:18:32.340 --> 01:18:35.100
I'm just like very much like

1782
01:18:35.100 --> 01:18:36.960
resonating with what you're saying

1783
01:18:36.960 --> 01:18:38.340
because

1784
01:18:38.340 --> 01:18:40.380
sometimes like you forget because like

1785
01:18:40.380 --> 01:18:43.020
the world is just like oh like what is

1786
01:18:43.020 --> 01:18:44.880
the value of this and like why are you

1787
01:18:44.880 --> 01:18:48.000
why are we doing this you know and

1788
01:18:48.000 --> 01:18:49.560
um

1789
01:18:49.560 --> 01:18:52.380
it's like yeah it's like born out of a

1790
01:18:52.380 --> 01:18:54.179
personal necessity but also born out of

1791
01:18:54.179 --> 01:18:55.020
like

1792
01:18:55.020 --> 01:18:58.440
a social and cultural necessity as well

1793
01:18:58.440 --> 01:19:01.159
yeah

1794
01:19:01.199 --> 01:19:04.020
um well yeah

1795
01:19:04.020 --> 01:19:07.440
um so I think we we sh we should maybe

1796
01:19:07.440 --> 01:19:09.600
move into and and take one question if

1797
01:19:09.600 --> 01:19:11.880
if someone has one

1798
01:19:11.880 --> 01:19:14.400
um as a closing Tour event but um I so

1799
01:19:14.400 --> 01:19:17.100
appreciate our conversation yo-yo I I'm

1800
01:19:17.100 --> 01:19:19.020
sure we could have many more and yes

1801
01:19:19.020 --> 01:19:21.600
maybe even just one dedicated to grief

1802
01:19:21.600 --> 01:19:23.940
uh where we can chat

1803
01:19:23.940 --> 01:19:26.460
um but yeah thanks for for chatting

1804
01:19:26.460 --> 01:19:28.199
today and uh

1805
01:19:28.199 --> 01:19:31.920
yeah if anyone has a a

1806
01:19:31.920 --> 01:19:33.120
um a question

1807
01:19:33.120 --> 01:19:34.500
um

1808
01:19:34.500 --> 01:19:39.080
please uh make yourself known

1809
01:19:52.380 --> 01:19:55.560
if not that's okay too and um

1810
01:19:55.560 --> 01:19:59.400
maybe you know I I actually would like

1811
01:19:59.400 --> 01:20:02.760
to take just a couple minutes if if I

1812
01:20:02.760 --> 01:20:05.280
could have the last question or the

1813
01:20:05.280 --> 01:20:06.600
question spot

1814
01:20:06.600 --> 01:20:08.820
um to ask you to respond to what your

1815
01:20:08.820 --> 01:20:12.360
vision for a pain informed world is

1816
01:20:12.360 --> 01:20:15.020
hmm

1817
01:20:15.120 --> 01:20:19.040
my vision for a pain informed world

1818
01:20:19.040 --> 01:20:23.159
that's a great question I think

1819
01:20:23.159 --> 01:20:25.980
yeah yeah

1820
01:20:25.980 --> 01:20:30.020
I think it's like one that

1821
01:20:31.620 --> 01:20:34.400
doesn't

1822
01:20:37.560 --> 01:20:39.840
yeah like

1823
01:20:39.840 --> 01:20:42.300
I think it's one that kind of like one

1824
01:20:42.300 --> 01:20:44.659
like believes

1825
01:20:44.659 --> 01:20:47.760
like believes in people when they share

1826
01:20:47.760 --> 01:20:49.199
about their pain

1827
01:20:49.199 --> 01:20:53.280
you know I think it's one that

1828
01:20:53.280 --> 01:20:55.440
uh

1829
01:20:55.440 --> 01:20:59.880
you know is moving away from shame

1830
01:20:59.880 --> 01:21:03.179
you know I think that's like

1831
01:21:03.179 --> 01:21:05.219
something that I've noticed when it

1832
01:21:05.219 --> 01:21:07.140
comes to like

1833
01:21:07.140 --> 01:21:10.440
people and myself you know like wanting

1834
01:21:10.440 --> 01:21:12.300
to share about pain

1835
01:21:12.300 --> 01:21:13.920
and then like

1836
01:21:13.920 --> 01:21:17.640
being othered or shamed because of it

1837
01:21:17.640 --> 01:21:19.920
um I think that's something that this

1838
01:21:19.920 --> 01:21:21.540
world would not have

1839
01:21:21.540 --> 01:21:24.800
and also

1840
01:21:25.080 --> 01:21:28.219
yeah just like

1841
01:21:29.400 --> 01:21:33.060
a gentleness a softness

1842
01:21:33.060 --> 01:21:36.560
a way of

1843
01:21:36.659 --> 01:21:40.739
being together and creating and

1844
01:21:40.739 --> 01:21:43.620
generating that

1845
01:21:43.620 --> 01:21:46.140
is always from

1846
01:21:46.140 --> 01:21:48.560
a place of

1847
01:21:48.560 --> 01:21:50.900
wanting to

1848
01:21:50.900 --> 01:21:54.120
ensure the well-being

1849
01:21:54.120 --> 01:21:56.940
of others

1850
01:21:56.940 --> 01:21:58.679
throughout the process and the

1851
01:21:58.679 --> 01:22:00.659
well-being of yourself as well I think

1852
01:22:00.659 --> 01:22:02.460
it's like

1853
01:22:02.460 --> 01:22:06.360
like it's never something that we

1854
01:22:06.360 --> 01:22:08.640
in this world need to compartmentalize

1855
01:22:08.640 --> 01:22:11.219
you know it's always a part of the

1856
01:22:11.219 --> 01:22:13.620
fabric of like how we move

1857
01:22:13.620 --> 01:22:16.320
through this world

1858
01:22:16.320 --> 01:22:18.659
yeah

1859
01:22:18.659 --> 01:22:21.300
that's great thank you yeah a

1860
01:22:21.300 --> 01:22:23.640
consideration of a collective well-being

1861
01:22:23.640 --> 01:22:26.280
as well as individual yeah really like

1862
01:22:26.280 --> 01:22:27.900
that

1863
01:22:27.900 --> 01:22:29.460
um

1864
01:22:29.460 --> 01:22:32.100
well our time has come to an end today

1865
01:22:32.100 --> 01:22:35.159
and um I just thank you again yo-yo for

1866
01:22:35.159 --> 01:22:37.199
your time and everybody here our

1867
01:22:37.199 --> 01:22:40.199
interpreting team for their time too and

1868
01:22:40.199 --> 01:22:43.380
um and everyone who showed up and um our

1869
01:22:43.380 --> 01:22:45.780
next pain series I believe will be with

1870
01:22:45.780 --> 01:22:47.640
Grant and Jonathan of the curio

1871
01:22:47.640 --> 01:22:49.800
curiosity Paradox

1872
01:22:49.800 --> 01:22:51.060
um

1873
01:22:51.060 --> 01:22:55.320
um next month and um yeah we will see

1874
01:22:55.320 --> 01:22:58.760
you all soon thank you

1875
01:22:59.760 --> 01:23:01.500
thank you everyone

1876
01:23:01.500 --> 01:23:04.500
thank