WEBVTT
Kind: captions
Language: en

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Hi.

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My name is Sammie Veeler.

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I am a white, transgender woman.

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I'm quite tall,
wearing some platforms.

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I have blonde hair.

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I'm wearing a lavender vest.

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I have a bunch of tattoos.

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And I'm here with
my friend, Andy.

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Hi.

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I'm Sammie's friend, Andy.

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I'm a middle-aged, white guy
with a red and gray beard, salt

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and cayenne pepper.

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And I've got red Pumas on.

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And that's my thing today.

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Oh, OK, do you have a mic too?

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Sure do.

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Hey-hey, yeah,
we're in business.

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We're in business.

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So by way of introduction, I
am an artist based allegedly

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in Los Angeles.

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I'm a co-founder
of New Art City,

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which is an artist-run virtual
space that we founded in 2020.

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Basically, we have a tool
that allows you to make a 3D

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multiplayer website
without code.

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And last year, we formed a
non-profit research initiative

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called Virtual Access
Lab, co-sponsored

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by Gray Area in San Francisco,
where we research and develop

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tools for accessible
digital culture.

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And that is how I met Andy.

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I'm based in Chicago.

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And I'm a media artist,
teaching artist,

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do a whole bunch of other stuff.

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I'm a principal sound
designer and access

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lead at an immersive design
boutique called Fair World.

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And I went and got a
fancy master's degree

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from Northwestern to
study sound for XR

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and these kind of experiences.

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So that's where I'm coming from.

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I identify as blind and crip,
and we have a lot to say.

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So I don't know what the time
is, but we're getting close.

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You can send the sandman
out, and we'll just take off.

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Right back to sleep.

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So Andy and I met
in, I think, 2021.

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New Art City was
somewhat in its infancy.

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We were working with San
Jose State University

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to begin using the
tool for education.

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And in order to
do that, we needed

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to meet these certain
standards of accessibility.

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And so when San Jose State
went to Mozilla Hubs and said,

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hey, can you meet this very
low bar for accessibility,

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they said no.

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And we said, well, why
wouldn't we want to do that?

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And so we brought in Andy to
do an accessibility audit.

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And we formed an access panel
of a bunch of different people

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across a lot of
intersecting identities

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to help advise on how we should
approach this in a holistic way

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from the bottom up,
not the top down.

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And so from that, we
implemented Alt text.

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And we, as far as I know, are
the only space of our kind

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that did that.

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And that it solves for
one, asymmetry of access.

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But we really saw that as
a beginning, not the end.

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And so over time, Andy's been
a really vital collaborator.

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And last year, we worked
together on this commission

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that we're here to talk
about called unseen sound.

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So you can see
here on the screen.

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This is a screenshot
from Leonardo's--

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Leonardo journal, which is where
the research was published.

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And on the screen it says,
"The book is closed forever,

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access denied."

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And the background
is a blue screen,

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which is both a reference
to Derek Jarman's blue,

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but also the blue
screen of death.

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This is, kind of, failure
state of a computer.

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So do you want to
talk a little bit

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about how you ended up
working with New Art

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City on this project?

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Because it had a life before us.

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Yes.

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So I was part of the Leonardo
CripTech Incubator fellowship.

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Yo, did I go away?

00:04:01.440 --> 00:04:03.680 line:90%
I'm sorry.

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2022/'23, basically it was a
cohort of disabled media artists

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working on some stuff.

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And they were-- thank you.

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They were paired with
different residency hosts.

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And I worked with this mega
international corporation

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called Thoughtworks.

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And they had the
Thoughtworks Arts division.

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And people from
all over the world

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were helping me
create-- originally,

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unseen sound was an AR
sound installation design

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tool that was accessible for
blind folks and whatever.

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About a year after
and a couple of months

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before this major exhibition
that was part of the fellowship,

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Thoughtworks Arts got
their funding ditched,

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and everybody got fired.

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And so all of the research
and all the hard work that we

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had put into it was just,
I don't know, put to bed.

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And then Thoughtworks, being
the capitalistic system

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that they are was
like, we'd like

00:05:01.790 --> 00:05:04.220 line:84%
to go into business with
you and monetize this

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with you, which the whole
point of the whole thing

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was that it was going to be open
source and free for everyone

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to use.

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Because as we've heard
in the last thing,

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price point is accessibility.

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The amount that things cost
is ridiculous, and ableist,

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and that sort of thing.

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So knowing what New
Art City did and loving

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working with Sammie and stuff
like that, I was just like, hey,

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can we get this together
in a couple of months

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and do something that's
really dope and, I don't know,

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up to our own creative
and absurd standards?

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And so that's what we did.

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And I think this
really is an object

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lesson in the precarity
of trusting a corporation

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to provide access.

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If a disabled person
is invited to work

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with a major corporation
and the only people

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they're talking to are marketing
people, you are being scammed.

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Scammed.

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And so there are lots of
fantastic examples of this.

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You want to compare New
Art City to Mozilla Hubs.

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We have one very important thing
on them, that we still exist.

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And this is a tool that was
built for corporate metaverses.

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And once the venture
capitalist got bored

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and moved on to generative AI,
they tossed it in the trash.

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New Art City is artist-led
infrastructure by artists,

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for artists.

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And so the standard of
stewardship that we aspire to

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is really, really different from
a corporate marketing scheme.

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And so this project was so
wonderful and generative

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because this was
not a transaction,

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it was a collaboration.

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So I mean, I guess
one other thing

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I want to say about the
cutting edge of technology,

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people are trying to sell
us a third web, which is

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a false teleology on its own.

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The tools of Web 1.0 are
unequally distributed.

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So when we think
about access, we're

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thinking about it in an
intersectional sense;

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your race, your geography, your
technical literacy, the device

00:07:07.140 --> 00:07:07.720 line:90%
that you own.

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These all-- of course,
obviously disability-- these

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all intersect to advantage some
people and disadvantage others.

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And so we're built for
the web specifically

00:07:18.690 --> 00:07:23.160 line:84%
because 2% of people on
Earth have a VR headset.

00:07:23.160 --> 00:07:27.360 line:84%
50% of people on Earth
access the internet primarily

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through a mobile device.

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This is universal design.

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We want to build for
the 50%, not the 2%.

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And so New Art City is
web based for this reason.

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So going into--
and then there are

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all these retinal assumptions
about what VR can and should be.

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So this is the first
non-visual, virtual experience

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on New Art City.

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Usually, these are dazzling,
three-dimensional, PS2

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aesthetic, chaotic worlds.

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And we really--

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Andy had this brilliant
idea to draw out

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this sensory disjunction
through this distilled

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gesture of unseen sound--

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and go to the next slide.

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So, I don't know.

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I'm blind.

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And I really feel like with XR
and VR and all these things--

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[IMMITATES A BARK] --my voice
at the same time, sorry.

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So what was I saying?

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Yeah, so I love the
sound and the audio.

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Why can't I just have
an audio experience that

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isn't an audio game, where
it's some barbarian killing

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people and that sort of thing?

00:08:32.549 --> 00:08:36.409 line:84%
I just want to walk around
in sound as I would sonic

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drift through the world.

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And so this is
something that we knew

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we could do without
having to spend two

00:08:44.240 --> 00:08:46.790 line:84%
grand on some
spatial audio suite

00:08:46.790 --> 00:08:53.187 line:84%
or use some archaic stuff in a
whole bunch of math and science

00:08:53.187 --> 00:08:54.770 line:84%
that I don't understand,
even though I

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know how the tech works, and I
know what it's supposed to do.

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So basically, I can't
develop in Unity or Unreal,

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and I can't use any of
the audio middleware

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that they employ because
it's not accessible.

00:09:08.440 --> 00:09:11.340 line:84%
The graphic user
interface thing is--

00:09:11.340 --> 00:09:12.520 line:90%
it doesn't work.

00:09:12.520 --> 00:09:13.730 line:90%
It's not there for me.

00:09:13.730 --> 00:09:16.210 line:84%
I just like to think
that it doesn't exist.

00:09:16.210 --> 00:09:20.850 line:84%
And so doing this kind of
thing on my own was impossible.

00:09:20.850 --> 00:09:23.520 line:84%
And I would just rage,
quit, everything--

00:09:23.520 --> 00:09:26.230 line:84%
just throw the computer
across the room if I could.

00:09:26.230 --> 00:09:30.520 line:84%
And so it's like an
audio experience.

00:09:30.520 --> 00:09:34.447 line:84%
Let's say, you-- was it the
HTC VIVE has this thing where

00:09:34.447 --> 00:09:36.780 line:84%
you put it on and you're
underwater, and there's whales,

00:09:36.780 --> 00:09:39.870 line:84%
and all this kind of stuff
where you guys who are sighted

00:09:39.870 --> 00:09:42.550 line:84%
can get this visual experience,
this immersive thing.

00:09:42.550 --> 00:09:45.370 line:90%
But where is that for me?

00:09:45.370 --> 00:09:47.590 line:84%
Why does everything have
to be so ocular centric?

00:09:47.590 --> 00:09:52.060 line:84%
And then why does it even
have to be an objective,

00:09:52.060 --> 00:09:55.150 line:84%
like some game objective or a
puzzle, or something like that?

00:09:55.150 --> 00:10:01.270 line:84%
So I was going-- yeah, so
I really wanted to create

00:10:01.270 --> 00:10:04.210 line:84%
something that was audio
based, that wasn't--

00:10:04.210 --> 00:10:05.700 line:90%
notes on blindness.

00:10:05.700 --> 00:10:07.470 line:90%
You guys know that?

00:10:07.470 --> 00:10:08.400 line:90%
If you don't, good.

00:10:08.400 --> 00:10:11.415 line:90%
Let's de-platform that mess.

00:10:11.415 --> 00:10:13.870 line:90%
And so here we are where we--

00:10:13.870 --> 00:10:16.390 line:84%
this exists on the
New Art City website.

00:10:16.390 --> 00:10:19.847 line:84%
But it was also part of the
CripTech exhibition where--

00:10:19.847 --> 00:10:21.430 line:84%
I don't know what
slide we're on here,

00:10:21.430 --> 00:10:23.790 line:84%
but we'll talk
about install shots.

00:10:23.790 --> 00:10:24.490 line:90%
There we go.

00:10:24.490 --> 00:10:26.550 line:84%
So we'll talk about what
that installation was

00:10:26.550 --> 00:10:27.940 line:90%
like and how access--

00:10:27.940 --> 00:10:31.300 line:84%
everything was intentional
on so many levels

00:10:31.300 --> 00:10:33.870 line:84%
so that everybody
that walked into that

00:10:33.870 --> 00:10:38.430 line:84%
or rolled into that gallery
could experience it.

00:10:38.430 --> 00:10:41.870 line:84%
So what we're seeing
on the screen now

00:10:41.870 --> 00:10:44.440 line:84%
is the install shot,
where on the left,

00:10:44.440 --> 00:10:47.070 line:84%
you have a screen on the wall
that has the blue screen I

00:10:47.070 --> 00:10:48.070 line:90%
described before.

00:10:48.070 --> 00:10:50.760 line:84%
And on the right, there's
a little table and a chair,

00:10:50.760 --> 00:10:53.830 line:84%
and there's a little arcade
controller and some headphones.

00:10:53.830 --> 00:10:56.670 line:84%
And the fundamental
gesture is a single person

00:10:56.670 --> 00:10:58.320 line:84%
can sit down and put
on the headphones.

00:10:58.320 --> 00:11:01.120 line:84%
And then they can control the
experience and hear the sound.

00:11:01.120 --> 00:11:03.580 line:84%
And every time a
sound is triggered,

00:11:03.580 --> 00:11:07.000 line:84%
it plays a sonic
description on the screen.

00:11:07.000 --> 00:11:09.220 line:84%
And so everybody else
who is witnessing

00:11:09.220 --> 00:11:11.660 line:84%
is only seeing what
is on the screen.

00:11:11.660 --> 00:11:15.460 line:84%
And so this distills
the sensory disjunction

00:11:15.460 --> 00:11:22.030 line:84%
between sound and vision
into this confusing gesture.

00:11:22.030 --> 00:11:26.290 line:84%
And it's really meant to take
that feeling of confusion

00:11:26.290 --> 00:11:29.673 line:84%
of putting on this HTC headset
where it's like, great,

00:11:29.673 --> 00:11:31.090 line:84%
it can do all of
these cool things

00:11:31.090 --> 00:11:33.150 line:84%
if I could only turn
the damn thing on.

00:11:36.445 --> 00:11:39.130 line:84%
The controller itself,
which I designed

00:11:39.130 --> 00:11:41.540 line:84%
with Andy's specifications,
is very, very simple.

00:11:41.540 --> 00:11:44.030 line:84%
You can only move
on the x and y-axis.

00:11:44.030 --> 00:11:45.700 line:84%
You have a button
to return to zero,

00:11:45.700 --> 00:11:47.780 line:84%
and you have a button to
move to the next zone.

00:11:47.780 --> 00:11:49.330 line:84%
But these buttons
are not labeled,

00:11:49.330 --> 00:11:54.920 line:84%
and the inputs and the
outputs do not always match.

00:11:54.920 --> 00:11:58.750 line:84%
And indeed, ain't
that just the way?

00:11:58.750 --> 00:12:00.850 line:84%
It's something that I
think a lot of people

00:12:00.850 --> 00:12:02.290 line:84%
are used to having
to adapt where

00:12:02.290 --> 00:12:03.910 line:90%
it's, what does this button do?

00:12:03.910 --> 00:12:05.630 line:84%
No one's here to
tell me what it is.

00:12:05.630 --> 00:12:07.070 line:90%
I can't see the label.

00:12:07.070 --> 00:12:08.820 line:84%
My whole life was just
like, I don't know.

00:12:08.820 --> 00:12:10.278 line:84%
I'm going to do it
until I find out

00:12:10.278 --> 00:12:13.900 line:84%
what it is, so sitting
down at the table,

00:12:13.900 --> 00:12:16.010 line:84%
and messing around
with this art piece.

00:12:16.010 --> 00:12:20.050 line:84%
It's like, figure it out,
mess around, figure it out.

00:12:20.050 --> 00:12:23.890 line:84%
There were instructions, but
the gallery did a really bang

00:12:23.890 --> 00:12:26.200 line:84%
up job of making
that stuff legible

00:12:26.200 --> 00:12:27.470 line:90%
and everything like that.

00:12:27.470 --> 00:12:29.410 line:84%
So luckily, it's something
that you could just

00:12:29.410 --> 00:12:31.160 line:90%
sit down and mess around with.

00:12:31.160 --> 00:12:35.230 line:84%
And so the idea of
conflicting accommodations

00:12:35.230 --> 00:12:37.610 line:84%
and that sort of thing,
I absolutely love.

00:12:37.610 --> 00:12:39.610 line:84%
And so we're looking
at the screen,

00:12:39.610 --> 00:12:44.965 line:84%
and whatever the
caption say, it's--

00:12:44.965 --> 00:12:47.025 line:90%
the sound matches that energy.

00:12:47.025 --> 00:12:48.020 line:90%
It's really weird.

00:12:48.020 --> 00:12:49.490 line:90%
What does the caption say?

00:12:49.490 --> 00:12:50.850 line:90%
Some of them are soft.

00:12:50.850 --> 00:12:52.810 line:84%
Is that-- oh, I
don't know, whatever.

00:12:52.810 --> 00:12:53.977 line:90%
I can not read it from here.

00:12:53.977 --> 00:12:54.910 line:90%
Oh.

00:12:54.910 --> 00:12:57.940 line:84%
We'll see what some
of those captions are.

00:12:57.940 --> 00:13:03.040 line:84%
But it's taking creative
description and creative access.

00:13:03.040 --> 00:13:05.197 line:84%
Everything, like I said,
was very intentional.

00:13:05.197 --> 00:13:07.030 line:84%
There's the monitor on
the wall, and there's

00:13:07.030 --> 00:13:08.120 line:90%
seating across from it.

00:13:08.120 --> 00:13:11.470 line:84%
So you can sit down and
rest because none of us

00:13:11.470 --> 00:13:13.150 line:90%
do that enough.

00:13:13.150 --> 00:13:16.060 line:84%
And so the captions
are there for people

00:13:16.060 --> 00:13:19.580 line:84%
that can't hear it or choose
not to hear what's going on.

00:13:19.580 --> 00:13:24.190 line:84%
And they're just sitting there
as a witness or an audience

00:13:24.190 --> 00:13:26.660 line:84%
to whoever's playing
through the sound.

00:13:26.660 --> 00:13:30.610 line:84%
And so non-visual, blind folks
have this cool audio experience.

00:13:30.610 --> 00:13:32.890 line:90%
And then people can--

00:13:32.890 --> 00:13:35.380 line:84%
we're so used to
being stared at.

00:13:35.380 --> 00:13:37.330 line:84%
This time, you can just
stare at the monitor

00:13:37.330 --> 00:13:40.610 line:90%
and imagine what we're doing.

00:13:40.610 --> 00:13:41.990 line:90%
What's on screen?

00:13:41.990 --> 00:13:44.210 line:90%
So that's all I have.

00:13:44.210 --> 00:13:45.630 line:90%
I don't love slides, in general.

00:13:45.630 --> 00:13:47.213 line:84%
So I have to install
shots, and then I

00:13:47.213 --> 00:13:49.050 line:90%
can show you the overture.

00:13:49.050 --> 00:13:51.890 line:90%
So now I can see.

00:13:51.890 --> 00:13:54.500 line:90%
I'm going to go over there.

00:13:54.500 --> 00:13:57.080 line:84%
You can see the
sonic descriptions

00:13:57.080 --> 00:14:00.000 line:84%
are stacking, when you're
hearing multiple sounds at once.

00:14:00.000 --> 00:14:02.550 line:84%
So we're seeing, "Putting
it back in a bottle.

00:14:02.550 --> 00:14:04.940 line:90%
A balloon deflates.

00:14:04.940 --> 00:14:08.480 line:84%
You will encounter all
kinds of different sounds?"

00:14:08.480 --> 00:14:10.500 line:84%
And now we have a close
up of the controller.

00:14:10.500 --> 00:14:12.770 line:84%
You can see a little
black plastic box

00:14:12.770 --> 00:14:15.420 line:84%
with an arcade joystick
sticking up out of the center.

00:14:15.420 --> 00:14:18.980 line:84%
And then on either side, there
are little arcade buttons.

00:14:18.980 --> 00:14:22.160 line:84%
And then there are some
headphones sitting on the table.

00:14:22.160 --> 00:14:26.750 line:84%
And then this is a close up shot
of somebody's hands actually

00:14:26.750 --> 00:14:30.047 line:90%
manipulating the controller.

00:14:30.047 --> 00:14:32.130 line:84%
It's going to be loud when
I go back to the video,

00:14:32.130 --> 00:14:34.953 line:84%
but I think it'd be nice
to hear Andy's opening.

00:14:37.850 --> 00:14:40.760 line:90%
I can just say it.

00:14:40.760 --> 00:14:43.100 line:90%
And away we go.

00:14:43.100 --> 00:14:44.140 line:90%
Does it want to play?

00:14:44.140 --> 00:14:44.990 line:90%
No.

00:14:44.990 --> 00:14:46.070 line:90%
It did it before.

00:14:46.070 --> 00:14:46.670 line:90%
No.

00:14:46.670 --> 00:14:46.910 line:90%
There we go.

00:14:46.910 --> 00:14:47.577 line:90%
[AUDIO PLAYBACK]

00:14:47.577 --> 00:14:51.350 line:84%
- Welcome to unseen sound, an
audio-only experience where

00:14:51.350 --> 00:14:55.340 line:84%
anything can happen
but probably won't.

00:14:55.340 --> 00:14:57.990 line:84%
As you wander through
this non-visual world,

00:14:57.990 --> 00:15:00.720 line:84%
you will encounter all
kinds of different sounds.

00:15:00.720 --> 00:15:03.612 line:84%
Some of them will be loud, and
some of them will be quiet.

00:15:03.612 --> 00:15:05.570 line:84%
Some of them will be
pleasant, and some of them

00:15:05.570 --> 00:15:06.710 line:90%
won't be pleasant.

00:15:06.710 --> 00:15:08.760 line:90%
It all depends on where you go.

00:15:08.760 --> 00:15:11.190 line:84%
There's no time limit
in unseen sound,

00:15:11.190 --> 00:15:13.135 line:90%
so get lost until you get bored.

00:15:32.697 --> 00:15:33.280 line:90%
[END PLAYBACK]

00:15:33.280 --> 00:15:35.290 line:90%
This is called pop swamp.

00:15:35.290 --> 00:15:38.770 line:90%
That's the area that we're in.

00:15:38.770 --> 00:15:42.850 line:84%
So I'll navigate away
from this video, again.

00:15:42.850 --> 00:15:45.910 line:90%
How do we make this?

00:15:45.910 --> 00:15:49.945 line:84%
I think this is going
back to these, kind of--

00:15:49.945 --> 00:15:55.210 line:84%
so when you install a VR piece
in an art gallery, what you have

00:15:55.210 --> 00:15:59.410 line:84%
to do is have a full-time
attendant babysitting

00:15:59.410 --> 00:16:05.882 line:84%
the machine all day just to
get it on, even sighted folks.

00:16:05.882 --> 00:16:10.240 line:84%
And this is one of these
human interfaces of access

00:16:10.240 --> 00:16:12.220 line:90%
because it's--

00:16:12.220 --> 00:16:14.170 line:84%
and I think this
is one of these--

00:16:17.995 --> 00:16:23.330 line:84%
whoa, I'm trying to remember
what the actual phrase was.

00:16:23.330 --> 00:16:25.370 line:84%
It's like access
intimacy, right?

00:16:25.370 --> 00:16:25.870 line:90%
Yeah.

00:16:29.830 --> 00:16:33.340 line:84%
Like, humans often form this
interface between disabled folks

00:16:33.340 --> 00:16:34.220 line:90%
and the world.

00:16:34.220 --> 00:16:37.300 line:84%
And so instead of having
this be an attendant who

00:16:37.300 --> 00:16:39.250 line:84%
is solving for the
inaccessibility of a tool,

00:16:39.250 --> 00:16:42.800 line:84%
after the fact, we got to
do this as collaborators.

00:16:42.800 --> 00:16:47.090 line:84%
And so our process for making
this was really interactive.

00:16:47.090 --> 00:16:51.270 line:84%
And he gave me some
drawings with silver marker

00:16:51.270 --> 00:16:55.250 line:84%
on a black sheet of paper of
the basic arrangement of how

00:16:55.250 --> 00:16:56.250 line:90%
it would work.

00:16:56.250 --> 00:16:57.827 line:90%
It looked like a D&D map.

00:16:57.827 --> 00:16:59.160 line:90%
God, I should have put those in.

00:16:59.160 --> 00:17:01.040 line:90%
That was silly.

00:17:01.040 --> 00:17:02.660 line:90%
Yeah, they really did.

00:17:02.660 --> 00:17:04.589 line:90%
And he gave me a bunch of stems.

00:17:04.589 --> 00:17:06.530 line:84%
And the most
beautiful part of this

00:17:06.530 --> 00:17:13.410 line:84%
is Andy trusted me to understand
his vision and install it.

00:17:13.410 --> 00:17:18.125 line:84%
And so it really felt
like a true collaboration.

00:17:18.125 --> 00:17:20.819 line:84%
And it's something
where I work--

00:17:20.819 --> 00:17:23.150 line:84%
I like to work within my
means because I want to know

00:17:23.150 --> 00:17:24.442 line:90%
that something's going to work.

00:17:24.442 --> 00:17:27.740 line:84%
I'm not going above and beyond
to use all this new tech

00:17:27.740 --> 00:17:30.500 line:84%
that there's some kind
of learning curve.

00:17:30.500 --> 00:17:32.850 line:84%
There are so many
ways to approach this.

00:17:32.850 --> 00:17:36.290 line:84%
But given my
background with old,

00:17:36.290 --> 00:17:38.750 line:84%
four-track cassettes
and analog gear,

00:17:38.750 --> 00:17:43.700 line:84%
and knowing at least with audio
and then even with video what

00:17:43.700 --> 00:17:51.967 line:84%
the limitations of this
arcane or, whatever,

00:17:51.967 --> 00:17:53.800 line:84%
functions of things and
that sort of thing--

00:17:53.800 --> 00:17:57.610 line:84%
having that background
meant that I'm just

00:17:57.610 --> 00:18:00.410 line:84%
going to make this so
that I know that it works.

00:18:00.410 --> 00:18:02.870 line:84%
You don't necessarily
need to know how it works.

00:18:02.870 --> 00:18:04.960 line:84%
You don't need The Wizard
of Oz at the back end

00:18:04.960 --> 00:18:07.660 line:84%
in order to just get an
idea that this is just

00:18:07.660 --> 00:18:10.720 line:84%
a spatial audio thing with
a bunch of weird sounds

00:18:10.720 --> 00:18:11.860 line:90%
and stuff like that.

00:18:11.860 --> 00:18:15.680 line:84%
And so knowing what the New
Art City platform was like,

00:18:15.680 --> 00:18:18.650 line:84%
I just told Sammie,
we're going to do this.

00:18:18.650 --> 00:18:21.790 line:84%
And then a blind person
like myself can just

00:18:21.790 --> 00:18:23.270 line:90%
do this autonomously.

00:18:23.270 --> 00:18:27.890 line:84%
I don't need to go and
get training necessarily.

00:18:27.890 --> 00:18:31.430 line:84%
I don't need to go get a demo
like the Apple Vision Pro,

00:18:31.430 --> 00:18:34.750 line:84%
where since I've got something
called an eccentric fixation

00:18:34.750 --> 00:18:36.910 line:84%
where my left eye turns
in, I couldn't even

00:18:36.910 --> 00:18:39.350 line:84%
do the demo because it
was eye tracking me.

00:18:39.350 --> 00:18:41.200 line:84%
So it's something where
you just sit down.

00:18:41.200 --> 00:18:44.650 line:84%
And it's like you have the
agency to go do this, stop.

00:18:44.650 --> 00:18:47.790 line:84%
There's no bells, or whistles,
and that sort of thing.

00:18:47.790 --> 00:18:51.560 line:84%
And so being-- keeping it
simple and collaborating

00:18:51.560 --> 00:18:55.580 line:84%
with Sammie meant, have
ownership over this.

00:18:55.580 --> 00:18:57.720 line:90%
We're not tied to a corporation.

00:18:57.720 --> 00:19:02.570 line:84%
We're not trying
to toe the party

00:19:02.570 --> 00:19:04.850 line:84%
line, that all of the
technology coming up

00:19:04.850 --> 00:19:06.350 line:84%
is going to be
important, and you're

00:19:06.350 --> 00:19:07.710 line:90%
going to save everybody's life.

00:19:07.710 --> 00:19:09.620 line:84%
We're just doing
this fun art thing

00:19:09.620 --> 00:19:17.310 line:84%
and building up, showing what
the New Art City can really do,

00:19:17.310 --> 00:19:18.830 line:90%
and just--

00:19:18.830 --> 00:19:20.520 line:84%
I don't know-- doing
something weird.

00:19:20.520 --> 00:19:23.700 line:84%
You've seen so much where
it's like I said earlier,

00:19:23.700 --> 00:19:26.607 line:84%
there's some audio game
with a battle where

00:19:26.607 --> 00:19:28.190 line:84%
it's like, you don't
even really trust

00:19:28.190 --> 00:19:30.230 line:84%
blind people to just
want to do weird stuff

00:19:30.230 --> 00:19:31.260 line:90%
and have a good time.

00:19:31.260 --> 00:19:33.860 line:84%
It's like when the last
of us came out, last of us

00:19:33.860 --> 00:19:36.780 line:84%
two or whatever, with all these
amazing accessibility options.

00:19:36.780 --> 00:19:38.608 line:84%
It's like I took
nine days trying

00:19:38.608 --> 00:19:40.400 line:84%
to figure out how to
do this, and then it's

00:19:40.400 --> 00:19:41.640 line:90%
a bloody zombie game.

00:19:41.640 --> 00:19:48.090 line:84%
I just want to bowl, or play
Mario, or knock a cactus over.

00:19:48.090 --> 00:19:50.990 line:84%
So it just comes from
this simple state

00:19:50.990 --> 00:19:52.890 line:90%
where it's like, I'm an artist.

00:19:52.890 --> 00:19:54.360 line:84%
I'm a weirdo,
Sammie's an artist.

00:19:54.360 --> 00:19:55.140 line:90%
Sammie's a weirdo.

00:19:55.140 --> 00:19:59.300 line:84%
And so we made something
weird, and then it made it

00:19:59.300 --> 00:20:00.780 line:90%
to the cover of a magazine.

00:20:00.780 --> 00:20:03.590 line:90%
So that was really cute.

00:20:03.590 --> 00:20:07.340 line:90%
But I really feel like maybe--

00:20:07.340 --> 00:20:08.610 line:90%
I don't know what the time is.

00:20:08.610 --> 00:20:11.593 line:90%
But I think--

00:20:11.593 --> 00:20:13.010 line:84%
I don't know if
you've told enough

00:20:13.010 --> 00:20:15.080 line:90%
about what New Art City is.

00:20:15.080 --> 00:20:17.160 line:90%
Sure.

00:20:17.160 --> 00:20:19.680 line:84%
Well, I mean, I think going
off of what you just said also

00:20:19.680 --> 00:20:26.570 line:84%
that there's this common
tick in big corporations

00:20:26.570 --> 00:20:28.880 line:84%
where they're like,
oh, we want a lot

00:20:28.880 --> 00:20:32.060 line:84%
of pictures of marginalized
people using our stuff.

00:20:32.060 --> 00:20:34.130 line:84%
And we want to
commission them to make

00:20:34.130 --> 00:20:36.650 line:84%
content for our
proprietary platform

00:20:36.650 --> 00:20:38.280 line:90%
as a marketing maneuver.

00:20:38.280 --> 00:20:41.690 line:84%
And we're really lucky
to be an arts institution

00:20:41.690 --> 00:20:44.730 line:84%
where we don't want to
think about it that way.

00:20:44.730 --> 00:20:48.160 line:84%
And it allows you to think
in a much more creative way

00:20:48.160 --> 00:20:50.590 line:90%
about what actually is desired.

00:20:50.590 --> 00:20:52.600 line:84%
I find myself as an
artist constantly

00:20:52.600 --> 00:20:57.520 line:84%
doing this dance of marketing
myself to somebody in order

00:20:57.520 --> 00:20:59.350 line:84%
to shoehorn something
that I wanted

00:20:59.350 --> 00:21:02.710 line:84%
to do already into something
that is legible to them.

00:21:02.710 --> 00:21:04.660 line:84%
And the most
beautiful part of this

00:21:04.660 --> 00:21:08.760 line:84%
is that we really
understand each other.

00:21:08.760 --> 00:21:10.870 line:84%
And I think what's
really important,

00:21:10.870 --> 00:21:13.094 line:84%
you're talking about
the optics of like-- you

00:21:13.094 --> 00:21:17.530 line:84%
know what, I don't know, HTC,
which we keep bringing up.

00:21:17.530 --> 00:21:20.420 line:84%
Because we had this
experience where, hey,

00:21:20.420 --> 00:21:24.140 line:84%
we're going to do this thing,
the CripTech Metaverse Access

00:21:24.140 --> 00:21:24.640 line:90%
Lab.

00:21:24.640 --> 00:21:25.510 line:90%
And we're going to fund it.

00:21:25.510 --> 00:21:27.280 line:84%
And then we're going
to take pictures.

00:21:27.280 --> 00:21:29.950 line:84%
And we're going to give some
artists a bunch of money

00:21:29.950 --> 00:21:31.540 line:90%
to do something.

00:21:31.540 --> 00:21:36.010 line:84%
But it's still an ableist piece
of tech and an ableist company

00:21:36.010 --> 00:21:38.830 line:84%
because they're going
in, using disabled people

00:21:38.830 --> 00:21:39.740 line:90%
to create something.

00:21:39.740 --> 00:21:41.450 line:90%
But I personally couldn't do it.

00:21:41.450 --> 00:21:45.416 line:84%
Some of the people in the
cohort couldn't do it.

00:21:45.416 --> 00:21:48.410 line:90%
That's the angle here.

00:21:48.410 --> 00:21:50.830 line:84%
It's like we talk
about accessibility,

00:21:50.830 --> 00:21:55.010 line:84%
and it's something
that's all on our mind.

00:21:55.010 --> 00:21:57.490 line:84%
But it's like,
what are we doing?

00:21:57.490 --> 00:22:02.320 line:84%
Is creating access to something
that is inherently ableist

00:22:02.320 --> 00:22:04.630 line:90%
already, is that anti-ableism?

00:22:04.630 --> 00:22:05.953 line:90%
Does that fight anything?

00:22:05.953 --> 00:22:06.620 line:90%
It's like, cool.

00:22:06.620 --> 00:22:10.720 line:84%
It gives us this way of
catching up and knowing

00:22:10.720 --> 00:22:13.180 line:84%
what society's doing
and that sort of thing

00:22:13.180 --> 00:22:15.790 line:84%
and understanding this crazy
metaverse that everybody's

00:22:15.790 --> 00:22:16.880 line:90%
talking about.

00:22:16.880 --> 00:22:20.770 line:84%
But when we still
platform certain things

00:22:20.770 --> 00:22:25.600 line:84%
like the quest or whatever,
which I can't even

00:22:25.600 --> 00:22:29.200 line:84%
turn on or use, and when
there's all this talk about,

00:22:29.200 --> 00:22:33.820 line:84%
we're making this accessible
for blind people or this

00:22:33.820 --> 00:22:38.155 line:84%
group of disabled people but
not allowing us to turn it on--

00:22:38.155 --> 00:22:39.230 line:90%
it's ridiculous.

00:22:39.230 --> 00:22:42.970 line:84%
And that was mentioned, I think,
by everybody in that last panel.

00:22:42.970 --> 00:22:48.010 line:84%
And so what we really
need to do is just say,

00:22:48.010 --> 00:22:51.560 line:84%
let's just do weird
stuff for us-- own this.

00:22:51.560 --> 00:22:55.880 line:84%
And if non-disabled people
want to get in on it, cool.

00:22:55.880 --> 00:22:59.680 line:84%
But we really just want to see
more people in whatever format,

00:22:59.680 --> 00:23:02.170 line:84%
whatever art form,
whatever medium--

00:23:02.170 --> 00:23:05.870 line:84%
disabled folks just make
stuff for your own community.

00:23:05.870 --> 00:23:08.000 line:84%
A lot of the times, we
don't have those tools.

00:23:08.000 --> 00:23:12.245 line:84%
But make your own
tools if you can.

00:23:12.245 --> 00:23:14.130 line:90%
You live in community.

00:23:14.130 --> 00:23:15.940 line:90%
Disabled people are very strong.

00:23:15.940 --> 00:23:18.930 line:84%
All the disability
solidarity is really strong,

00:23:18.930 --> 00:23:21.300 line:90%
whether we know this or not.

00:23:21.300 --> 00:23:23.220 line:90%
And build a community.

00:23:23.220 --> 00:23:26.610 line:84%
And build, and create, and
then just show this industry

00:23:26.610 --> 00:23:31.020 line:84%
that a lot of the times, they
don't know what they're talking

00:23:31.020 --> 00:23:33.240 line:90%
about, and we're not involved.

00:23:33.240 --> 00:23:34.890 line:84%
I can't even count
how many times

00:23:34.890 --> 00:23:38.590 line:84%
I've heard somebody say, hey,
I made this for blind people.

00:23:38.590 --> 00:23:40.450 line:84%
Why do you want to
replace the cane

00:23:40.450 --> 00:23:43.890 line:84%
with some weird, haptic,
vibratory, flashlight-looking

00:23:43.890 --> 00:23:44.390 line:90%
thing?

00:23:44.390 --> 00:23:47.540 line:84%
It's like the cane has been
around for millions of years,

00:23:47.540 --> 00:23:50.480 line:84%
and I would trust it
more than anything else.

00:23:50.480 --> 00:23:54.760 line:84%
People just trying to cure your
disability through some kind

00:23:54.760 --> 00:23:55.490 line:90%
of technology.

00:23:55.490 --> 00:23:57.740 line:84%
And then that technology
gets sold to Lockheed Martin,

00:23:57.740 --> 00:23:58.615 line:90%
et cetera, et cetera.

00:23:58.615 --> 00:24:00.890 line:90%
I don't need to keep ranting.

00:24:00.890 --> 00:24:04.450 line:84%
Yeah, it's like
technological solutions

00:24:04.450 --> 00:24:07.412 line:90%
to structural problems.

00:24:07.412 --> 00:24:10.300 line:84%
And the question I always
ask, are we doing marketing,

00:24:10.300 --> 00:24:11.630 line:90%
or are we doing research?

00:24:11.630 --> 00:24:14.890 line:84%
So if you're bringing
a bunch of headsets

00:24:14.890 --> 00:24:16.630 line:84%
to put on some blind
folks, but there's

00:24:16.630 --> 00:24:19.570 line:84%
no pathway for any
features that actually

00:24:19.570 --> 00:24:23.920 line:84%
make the tool accessible, then
what the hell are we doing here?

00:24:23.920 --> 00:24:26.180 line:84%
And so when we did
this collaboration,

00:24:26.180 --> 00:24:29.320 line:84%
we did not have time-coded
sonic descriptions

00:24:29.320 --> 00:24:31.040 line:90%
or captioning on New Art City.

00:24:31.040 --> 00:24:34.060 line:84%
And we built the damn
feature for Andy, with Andy,

00:24:34.060 --> 00:24:36.430 line:90%
while we were making the tool.

00:24:36.430 --> 00:24:41.340 line:84%
And I think that is really
central to our approach.

00:24:41.340 --> 00:24:44.570 line:84%
And I think it was-- it's in
many ways a reaction to the ways

00:24:44.570 --> 00:24:46.790 line:84%
that we've witnessed
corporate platforms exploiting

00:24:46.790 --> 00:24:48.260 line:90%
disabled people.

00:24:48.260 --> 00:24:51.570 line:84%
And corporate platforms-- or
I shouldn't even say that,

00:24:51.570 --> 00:24:56.030 line:84%
but just how people are
approaching captions in XR where

00:24:56.030 --> 00:24:56.930 line:90%
there's still--

00:24:56.930 --> 00:24:59.690 line:84%
a lot of people
are still following

00:24:59.690 --> 00:25:03.150 line:84%
the FCC standards of how
long a caption should be,

00:25:03.150 --> 00:25:05.250 line:84%
what it should look like,
and that sort of thing,

00:25:05.250 --> 00:25:08.520 line:84%
and maybe not even including it
as open captionings and stuff.

00:25:08.520 --> 00:25:11.390 line:84%
So I was just messing around
and experimenting with it.

00:25:11.390 --> 00:25:15.170 line:84%
And it really shows that
there shouldn't be standards,

00:25:15.170 --> 00:25:18.680 line:84%
especially with art
and XR and stuff.

00:25:18.680 --> 00:25:20.750 line:84%
There should be standards,
but the standards

00:25:20.750 --> 00:25:23.060 line:84%
don't need to be
the golden rule.

00:25:23.060 --> 00:25:24.620 line:90%
It's like, let's--

00:25:24.620 --> 00:25:27.860 line:84%
I mean, it's more like
strategies than rules that--

00:25:27.860 --> 00:25:32.130 line:84%
I mean, I've been so inspired
by the way Andy approaches Alt

00:25:32.130 --> 00:25:32.630 line:90%
text.

00:25:32.630 --> 00:25:34.500 line:84%
Or the fact that it was
like, oh, thank god,

00:25:34.500 --> 00:25:37.170 line:84%
I can use more than three
sentences if I want to.

00:25:37.170 --> 00:25:39.960 line:84%
It's like, oh, my
subjectivity is valuable.

00:25:39.960 --> 00:25:43.626 line:84%
I don't need to seek
this view from nowhere.

00:25:43.626 --> 00:25:48.840 line:84%
And I love subjective
description and this access

00:25:48.840 --> 00:25:51.560 line:84%
intimacy and things
for a community.

00:25:51.560 --> 00:25:53.580 line:90%
It's like, who's the describer?

00:25:53.580 --> 00:25:55.530 line:84%
Is it a little kid telling
me what's going on?

00:25:55.530 --> 00:25:56.947 line:84%
Because it's going
to be much more

00:25:56.947 --> 00:25:59.820 line:84%
interesting than some adult that
thinks they know everything.

00:25:59.820 --> 00:26:02.510 line:84%
Or you go to a museum, and
you have a docent, somebody

00:26:02.510 --> 00:26:05.660 line:84%
that knows all the work,
describing it to you using

00:26:05.660 --> 00:26:07.050 line:90%
a whole bunch of art speak.

00:26:07.050 --> 00:26:10.460 line:84%
Or maybe it's this wonderful
objective description

00:26:10.460 --> 00:26:12.920 line:90%
of a museum piece.

00:26:12.920 --> 00:26:14.342 line:90%
I think we're getting the cane.

00:26:14.342 --> 00:26:15.300 line:90%
We're getting the hook.

00:26:15.300 --> 00:26:20.700 line:84%
But the more describers,
the more descriptions, I

00:26:20.700 --> 00:26:21.520 line:90%
think the better.

00:26:21.520 --> 00:26:26.140 line:84%
And that's not necessarily a
conclusion, but that's the end.

00:26:26.140 --> 00:26:29.380 line:84%
And I'll be demoing this
piece today and tomorrow.

00:26:29.380 --> 00:26:31.520 line:84%
So you can come and
have fun with it.

00:26:31.520 --> 00:26:32.020 line:90%
Thank you.

00:26:32.020 --> 00:26:32.770 line:90%
Thank you so much.

00:26:32.770 --> 00:26:34.520 line:90%
[APPLAUSE]